If you still do it, why do you allow your cat to free roam?

[TreacherousPissFlap]

To be clear, we had cats all through my childhood and early adulthood and they were always free to come and go as they pleased.

I've just seen yet another post on the local FB page of a cat being run over. Now we don't live in a massively built up area or have particularly fast or busy roads, but every day there is at least one post about cats that are either missing or have been run over.

DCat is the love of DH's life and doesn't leave the garden. She's naturally lazy, we have 8ft high walls and we've actively discouraged her going out. She wears a tracker in case she does make a bid for freedom but she doesn't really seem bothered (she was a stray from the RSPCA and had clearly been a much loved house cat that had managed to get out and get lost, so I think that maybe plays a part in her being such a homebody) She's therefore easy to manage and hasn't required a catio or additional fencing, although I absolutely would do that now if she was more determined.

I'm certain my previous cats have decimated the local wildlife and shat in my neighbours gardens and I'm a bit WTF that I ever thought that was ok. Personally the risks now feel too great to allow my cat to free roam so any future models I have will also be confined to barracks.

Ive just cleaned up cat shit from my front garden and it got me thinking, why do people still allow it and will you continue to do so when you have new cats?

Because it’s natural. And yes, I’ve had one hit by a car who died. I still let my others out as it’s what they want to do as cats.

You’re the one comparing two completely different species and trying to act as though we should treat them the same 😂

It’s a bit like telling rabbit owners that they need to walk them twice a day because “it would be cruel if a dog never went for a walk”.

Can you not just put it on a lead to let it outdoors for a bit?

Now this thread has answered my question about what my neighbour in the street above me has built recently in her garden - a catio! So that's what it is! At first I thought she had a hutch for rabbits but it's linked yo her kitchen window so they come out of that into the catio to lounge around or play.

Modern dna tests have shown that while dog dna has changed considerably due to domestication, cat dna has remained virtually unchanged. Cats are very different in terms of what domestication mean

Exactly. Cats have barely changed over the years.

@TabulaRasa26Scientists disagree with you. They are classed as semi-domesticated and for very good reasons.

Don’t be daft. Cats have been confined by modern owners indoors mostly for their own convenience. The safety argument is a bit disengenous in that respect - we keep them inside because of how we live now.

Historically European society lets their cats roam. They had to because they had a job. Cats still have their own purpose. If I’d been a woman with a Viking husband, he’d have had to give me a cat as wedding gift to help me run the house.

Behavioural domestication doesn’t require huge DNA changes; it requires selection for traits that make a species compatible with humans, and that’s exactly what has happened with cats. If cats were truly still wild animals, they wouldn’t cope with living in houses at all, yet millions do perfectly well as long as they have play, stimulation and safe territory. Indoor‑only cats are the norm in many European countries. People in the UK are happy to neuter their cats without arguing that “breeding is their natural instinct”, yet roaming is treated differently even though both instincts exist. Keeping cats indoors is also better for wildlife. If someone wants to let their cat roam, that’s their choice, but it isn’t the rule and it isn’t cruel to do otherwise, that claim simply isn’t based on science.

You find the genetic differences between felis silvestrus and felis catus. Difficult

I've rarely had a MN thread that's got so heated 😆

I'm actually really surprised how many people DO allow their cats to roam, around here indoor cats are not as unusual as this thread would suggest.

I guess we're lucky that DCat shows no desire to roam (given her previous disastrous experience that led her to us) and I concur that it's much harder to stop a cat who is determined to get out. She's currently asleep under the apple tree in the semi shade and seems perfectly contented with her lot ❤️

Mine is allowed out whenever but she’s a home loving soul so never goes far, she’s usually in my garden. We also have a terraced house so she’d have to go quite far to actually reach a road and I don’t let her out the front. I think she’d be miserable if she could never go out though. I expect lots of cats do survive, you just see the info about those who don’t and I think it’s just a (horrible) risk you have to take with owning a cat.

The idea that felis catus is not fully domesticated because its DNA is close to felis silvestris is a misunderstanding of what domestication means. Genetic similarity does not determine behaviour or welfare needs. Humans share around 98 percent of our DNA with chimpanzees and dogs share a similar percentage with wolves, yet no one argues humans should live like chimps or that dogs should live like wolves.

What matters is behavioural domestication, not the raw percentage of DNA difference. Domestic cats have been selected for reduced fear, increased sociability, smaller territories, tolerance of human environments and juvenile behaviours into adulthood. These are recognised markers of domestication. A genuinely wild animal would not cope with living in a house, using a litter tray, forming social bonds with humans or thriving in an enriched indoor environment, yet millions of domestic cats do exactly that.

The fact that felis catus can interbreed with wildcats does not make them semi domesticated any more than dogs being able to interbreed with wolves makes dogs semi wild. Behaviourally, domestic cats are a fully domesticated species and their welfare depends on stimulation, safety and environmental enrichment, not on roaming.

But we have practical examples of society in Turkey where cats literally exist as public property. They are fed but not owned. What we can see about cats is that their behaviour can be changed by human interaction, but their actual preferences seem to include roaming and occupying territories outside. Left to their own choices, they act differently to human needs. They leave, and come back for food. And for warmth. And perhaps the affection of people.

For a long time in law they were neither property nor considered domesticated.

Cats in Turkey roaming freely doesn’t prove they are semi domesticated. Behaviour in a specific environment is not the same as biological need. Cats also live entirely indoors in many European countries, which shows they adapt to the conditions they are raised in. My point is that the fact that a cat will roam if allowed does not mean roaming is required for welfare, just as a dog would also roam and form territories if left loose. The old UK legal classification was based on their historic role as mousers, not on biology. Behaviourally, domestic cats show all the markers of domestication, including reduced fear, sociability and the ability to live successfully in human homes. Their capacity to survive outdoors when permitted does not mean they need to, and it does not make indoor life cruel. Hopefully this makes it clearer.

My point is that the fact that a cat will roam if allowed does not mean roaming is required for welfare

Except many cats genuinely become stressed and unwell if they are locked indoors, even with plenty of stimulation and company. One of mine developed struvite crystals from it and our vet basically said "you have two choices, you can either let him out to roam, or manage his stress until it kills him". We let him out and he's never once had reccurrence of his urinary issues.

He's hardly an anomaly either - just go and read "The Litter Tray" to see how many cats toilet inappropriately when shut inside, or throw themselves against doors and windows to get outside.

Yes but all over the world cats display behaviour which is empirically nothing to do with them wanting to remain indoors or indeed being satisfied with it. Cats roaming has more to do with their behaviour. If you let them outside, they enjoy it. Why are you pretending otherwise? Cats like the outdoors. They like warmth and people too. It is the people who keep them inside who have a great incentive to say that indoor life is normal for cats. It is part of their life only, which human beings have understood for about as long as when the first felis silvestris decided a human encampment might offer a ready source of mice. I disagree about biological need. A cat is simply able to meet most of its needs independently, meet those needs, and also engage in human society when and if it chooses. An indoor cat does not live like that.

I've seen footage of a real African wildcat- the original cat to be domesticated- wandering into someone's tent on safari for a nose. (Cue hundreds of comments going "Lol, that's just a cat!" Well, technically it is). Which I think shows that even in the wild they're pretty fearless and curious.

Using the Latin doesn’t make you right. Link a scientific article referencing cats as fully domestic. G’wan.

Genetic similarity, roaming behaviour and cultural examples don’t change the basic point that domestic cats show clear behavioural domestication. Enjoying the outdoors is not the same as biologically needing it, and I’ve never suggested cats don’t enjoy going outside. Behaviour adapts to environment. In Turkey, cats roam because the culture allows it. In many European countries, cats live entirely indoors because that culture expects it. Neither pattern proves a biological requirement. A dog will also roam, form territories and return for food if left loose, but no one argues that means dogs are not domesticated or that roaming is essential for their welfare. Individual cats can absolutely have stress‑related issues, just as individual dogs can, but isolated cases do not define the species. The relevant science focuses on behavioural traits: reduced fear, sociability, adaptability and the ability to live successfully in human homes. Domestic cats clearly show all of these. Their capacity to survive outdoors when permitted does not mean they need to, and it does not make indoor life cruel. Hopefully that makes things clearer. I’ve enjoyed the discussion but I need to get on with my day now, so I won’t be returning to the thread. If nothing else, I hope some readers take away that personal experience is not the same as evidence, and that what feels “normal” in one country isn’t automatically the universal truth.

Our cat started getting in fights with a neighbour’s cat. We tried keeping him and his brother in at night and they went bonkers and eventually broke the cat flap to get out. Luckily we moved not long after so left the bully cat behind and haven’t had any issues since. They’re 13 now and can’t be bothered to go far but I still wouldn’t lock them inside.

Does anyone else find it fascinating/amusing when they watch their cat walk across the top of fences when the planks are only about 1cm wide?!

It’s amazing how they keep their balance!!!

You are brave to post, OP, as many people have very strong views on their cat's right to roam! I inherited my mother's lovely ten-year-old cat after she died. I stayed in my mother's house and had been taking care of her when my mother could no longer do it so it was an easy transition for the cat. I live inba rural area, and the cat had had a wonderful life roaming in the meadows and woods, and she would have hated being kept indoors. The cat died after 18 months, of untreatable cancer. I felt devastated as I adored her, but I decided that I'd never get another cat, much as I'd love to do so, as I was horrified by her killing of birds, mice, moles, shrews, and other creatures, but dud not want to confine one to the indoors either. Wildlife, particularly birds, is declining rapidly, and cats (or rather their owners) bear a great deal of responsibility. The payoff for me is that my garden is now a safe space for wildlife, and I can feed and water birds without anxiety or guilt. They are visiting and nesting, and that compensates for not having another cat.

Surely the fact that they « escape » from time to time means they’d be happier being able to come and go as they please, living a natural and healthier life? If it’s a shorter life because of the danger faced in roaming, is it not worth that for the animal to have a happy, fulfilled life?

I've lost cats before. I don't think the risk of their becoming strays or being hurt or injured is worth it. Mine were strays. It's a miserable life..