Fit notes to be abolished what about op recovery

[Flowerpower70]

Read a BBC news article today stating fit notes will be scrapped altogether in some areas of the UK and people will be sent to support services instead! GPs in these areas will no longer issue fit notes ftom July. What happens if one has an operation and needs time to recover? For example, the ex is due to have an op he's waited such a long time for and he's planned for his sister to help with his care and cleaning etc.. and to help him recover but now the poor guys worried sick! How ridiculous how can he be reffered to support to work when recovering from an op? Support services can take months to see someone. Do g think it's been thought through

They’re still due to be included as part of personalised post-op plans in the areas where this is being trialled. I hope your ex’s operation and recovery goes well.

No I don’t. When you are ill you don’t want support to get back into work, you want to rest and recover. I assume if you have surgery the person you are sent to for support will tell you to do exactly that. They can hardly tell you to go back to work before you are ready.

Cross posted. That makes complete sense.

When I was diagnosed with bc, I used my diagnosis letter and my appt letters for surgery, chemo, radio etc to explain to work why I would be taking time off, and working from home on other days.

It will be easier with the more severe stuff. No-one would disagree with a chemo appointment.

But how will employers know how much time is reasonable to take for a more obscure diagnosis?

This seems like another of Labour's plans with unintended consequences.

I have to send fit notes to DWP to support my ESA claim, post stroke, because they are so far behind in processing 'work capability assessments'. I wonder what they're planning to do about people like me?

I can't work, I can barely get through the day.

This. Just more nasty politics from the party who are supposed to care about those struggling.

Unfortunately they can't win. People moan about the cost of the welfare bill and little growth in the UK, they moan if they do anything to combat some of the huge number of long term sickness.

Some of it though? Being sent for counselling for mental health issues, not a good idea? It can really help in some cases turn around the quality of life for people - if the government provide the help in a timely manner.

I think it's due to the ever online recommendation and expectation to get a sick note for whatever reason. Go to your GP, get a sick note because they're so easy to get and they have been.

Do people really want to be off work, I was ill and signed off for a few weeks earlier in the year, I was literally not able to function well enough to work. The fit note gave me some space while waiting for test results and then time to recover when the problem was identified. I had thought I had a mental health issue but actually discovered differently. Waiting list for mental health support if you are seriously unwell is so long people are waiting months for support, if you have an unusual condition it again can take a very long time to get the right treatment. I think focusing on that rather than just stopping the process of being signed off is what’s needed.

How the heck is this supposed to work???

What do I do if I need time off for my MS?

Employers aren't going to like this, any more than employees will.

What an odd ass policy.

Another avoidance tactic. Easier to do this than tackle the NHS waiting lists.

An operation is one case where a patient can expect a note to cover an "average" number of weeks-obviously some of us take longer to recover for a range of reasons. But surely the same applies to any physical illness-if you aren't well enough to work, talking to a support service won't help. For mental health, if they are actually providing proper mental health support, that's one thing, but I really worry about the consequences if someone unwell feels pressured.
If fit notes take up too much GP time, we need more GPs! So many people apply to medical school-let's have more places, so in a decade or so, things might improve. Doctors are the only ones who should be deciding how well someone is.

I can see why there is a desire to remove GP’s from the the process of judging whether someone is sick enough to be eligible for monetary support so they don’t have to work (whether that’s state money or employer money). They aren’t really trained for it and it’s a conflict of interest with their relationship with their patients.

But I am sceptical about the proposed replacement.

You would be surprised. Someone who works in housing said on here that compliance checks like those for gas safety should come before a chemo appointment.

Here post at 11.14

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5259390-housing-association-saying-im-unreasonable-i-dont-think-i-am?page=10

It sounds sensible to me, i was shocked how readily GPs were prepared to sign me off work for long stretches and I met a lot of difficulty persuading them I wanted a note for reduced hours /duties instead . It felt like they barely even realised that was an option.

The issue might come with rare or complex conditions but on the other hand my occupational health specialist at works seems far more knowledgeable about Myasthenia than my local GPs

I think one factor behind this is the idea that GPs (I am a doctor but not a GP), as well as not having the capacity to process the sheer number of fit notes/fit note reviews, feel they are not actually that well equipped to decide on these matters, unless they have expertise in occupational heath (which of course plenty do). I think a lot of GPs and other doctors in general do hold this view.

In theory, a separate well-equipped and well-educated specialised service that links well with employees/DWP might work better for tailoring things, but I completely acknowledge specific concerns on this thread as valid. And any sort of waiting list or inadequacy could render it all meaningless, not to mention stressful for the very people needing support.

Back to the post-op question, on reflection I wonder if hospital doctors and surgeons may end up writing up a longer period of leave on the personalised plan than they might have before, as previously they could say “if your recovery ends up taking longer, you can always see your GP (poor GPs) to discuss extending it”. If so, under this new scheme, were the patients to be fit for work before the end of their planned leave period, they could choose to return to work early (rather than staying off till the end of the fit note period as the extended leave has been sanctioned). Anecdotally I think a great many would return as soon as they were ready, if not too early, but the opposite could also hold true, and I certainly hope all this is being monitored as part assessment of these trials’ efficacy and applicability.

My DD is a GP, and sick notes/fit notes take up a lot more of her time than they should... as a previous poster has said, sometimes she doesn't actually have the expertise to judge what a patient needs, but also there are a huge number of lead swingers who pitch up literally demanding another note, who have been signed off for , in some case, years, who either need support to just get back to work, or who are playing the system because they do not want to work.
In theory, outsourcing it may help the system by redirecting those who could go back to work, or who just need specific support.
GPs are regularly abused on here, but the reality is most are vastly overworked because there are not enough of them and not enough hours in the day to see patients and do all the paperwork.

So your GP DD doesn't think she has the expertise, but thinks non medical professionals are where this should go?

Make it make sense.

It's also not the fault if patients that there aren't enough GPs. Don't take services away from tbsie who need them.

I have been signed off twice within the past year for severe depression. During both of those times I didnt want to see anyone, let alone speak to anyone. I could barely drag myself out of bed, couldn’t face eating couldn’t face showering or brushing my hair and just about managed the bare minimum brushing my teeth. There’s no way I could’ve managed to go to a support service and besides that the therapy sessions I was referred to took 8 months from being referred to my first session, and that was for someone who had made plans to end their life. There is no chance of me ever contacting the crisis team again because I was told I didn’t sound depressed on the phone and to just go for a walk and walk it off. I did tell the person on the phone that the only walk I’d be doing would be to the cliff tops. I’m still waiting for a call back 16 months later.

So I had an operation yesterday and got given a sick note before I even got anaesthetised…. And it was double what I told my boss I was expecting too!

To pretend this is just part of the job of being a GP is disingenuous. The GP role wasn’t designed or funded to do this, it’s grown up around the GP’s real role under protest. It distorts GP-patient relationships and takes up resources that should be focused on improving people’s health.