Please help me negotiate this at work

[YummyPorridge]

My organisation is going through serious difficulties and has opened a voluntary severance scheme. I applied because I have a small business that is doing well and I want to put my energies into that.

I was turned down, but everyone else in my small team has been accepted. I've been told I am needed because I'm very capable and they want someone to manage a brand new team of much cheaper junior staff, who btw have not even been recruited yet. This means not only can I not go, but I'll pick up a lot of additional work and will almost certainly not be allowed to go part-time as I requested.

I do want to go and I think I have some leverage here. My line manager and other senior colleagues know that my business is doing well and that I'll be able to access my pension soon. So I do have a credible alternative to my job.

So I'm wondering whether to use this to negotiate a proper handover/managing transition until Christmas in exchange for a VS-equivalent package on my way out. Is this a reasonable ask? Has anyone pulled off something like this? I'm not the negotiating type; in fact, I'm normally far too accommodating (some would say a mug). Please give me the words!!

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

You can try but be prepared for them to play hard ball and say that you can go but resign and they won’t pay you anything. They might recruit / move someone in to pick up your role as soon as you talk about wanting to go so during your notice period (if you resign) so they pick up the main aspects of the role. No one is indispensable so it might work in your favour trying to negotiate an exit but equally if they want you to stay they might pay hardball and say no leaving you to resign and go with nothing.

I’d be prepared to leave without a package because what I make in my business plus my pension would be enough to replace my salary. I’d work my notice, of course.

You might have to just quit, but if that puts them in the shit, offer to stay for a fixed period as a contractor for a handsome rate. I know a couple of people who did that. Wanted to leave jobs, but the company really needed them to stay so would only do it if they made it worth their while.

Would the new management role be substantially the same as your current role or is it a change / promotion?

If it’s a change / promotion then you can probably start by treating it as a job offer and turning it down. Be polite, thank them for the opportunity, but you prefer your current role. They can’t force you into a promotion…

You need to be tough to negotiate this. If you show weakness you will be exploited.

"Thank you for (your email/the meeting on xx date) explaining thar rather than accepting my application for voluntary severance, you on the contrary want me to be part of building the new future of (org name) leading the new team that is to be recruited. This is a hugely gratifying vote of confidence in my skills and capabilities and I genuinely appreciate it.

"However, it is not necessarily the right choice for me to accept this opportunity. Going from being part of a team of similarly qualified and experienced colleagues to instead leading a team of more junior and less experienced and capable staff will be a huge change. Whilst I am sure I would be fully capable of rising the to challenge, doing so will have a significant impact on the energies I am able to put into my separate small business that you are aware of,which would reduce my overall income.

"I am therefore only willing to accept this opportunity if it comes with a pay rise to at least (name a figure that is a minimum 25% above your current salary, but you want them to turn this opportunity down so be bold, it's ok for the figure to be unrealistic but if there's a figure you'd genuinely be happy to do it for, use it), which will enable me to put all my energy into achieving the new and more efficient setup you envision. Alternatively if that wouldn't be available, I would be willing to offer a maximum of 6 months beyond the departure of my colleagues, at a salary of circa (name a figure that is about 5% above your current salary, you want them to find it easy to accept) to be followed by a severance paymemt of (name a sum that is a bit less than what you would be entitled to if made redundant, to make it feel affordably attractive) during which time I will wholeheartedly work to do everything in my power to build up and train the new workforce to get (org name) ready for the future and create an effective and functional handover to ensure that the new team can capture as much of my wisdom and knowledge as possible."

nb you need to be prepared to just resign if they refuse

Thank you all. To answer a few questions, as I think some of you perhaps misunderstood. I am not being offered a promotion or a different role, I would be staying in the same role but picking up a lot of mundane tasks to keep things going and then managing a team of new, inexperienced recruits (agency workers to start with, then new junior staff) once my colleagues leave. Also, I will be required to work full-time in all likelihood. I need to go down to .5 hours to ensure my business keeps the current momentum. This is why I applied for severance.

Yes, I would be prepared to resign rather than work full-time in these conditions. It feels like a huge step for me though, as I'm not one for bold moves like that. But if I stay, overall I will get worse income and I know I will still try and keep my business doing well, which means working myself to exhaustion. I think it's time to make a decision and if that decision is leaving with no severance paying, so will be.

But of course, the best option would be to keep working for a few months on a four days a week basis and leave with my severance payment by Christmas. I think it's good solution for both parties but I need to present it well to them.

I'd speak to ACAS. I think they have declined your voluntary severance as they think they don't have to keep you for long anyway if you are nearly pension age.

If they wanted you to go FT when you're currently not, that would be a change in contract, which you wouldn't have to accept, surely? You definitely need advice on what your options will be.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Well, I'm eligible to draw my pension from age 55, yes, but most of us retire at 60+.

As for my current hours, I am working four days a week on a temporary arrangement which was due to be extended for another year and a half. But my contract is for full-time hours and as their business needs have changed, they can ask me to work full-time.

To be clear, I'm not saying the organisation I work for is being unreasonable and I get on well with my line manager. But it's just that working full-time in these conditions is not compatible with an expanding business. If I stay, I accept my business suffers and it might not pick up the momentum.

If you're prepared to just quit and walk away with nothing, then go for it. You have nothing to lose.

I don’t think your business and pension is the leverage you think it is tbh. They have made the choice based on business needs, not individual needs, so that is where you need to start your negotiation.

I'd speak to ACAS, your union or an employment solicitor.
One thing that stands out to me , not for you but for your colleagues, is that their roles aren't technically redundant as their vacancies are being replaced with new staff. The roles aren't being deleted.

If you don't get what you want, just quit after the changes have been made and the junior staff have started and leave them to it.

If you don’t ask, you don’t get, but I don’t see what’s in it for your company. They be better to recruit for your role on your notice period – they’d likely get someone cheaper and that person would stay with the new team for recruitment and beyond.

If you don't get what you want, just quit after the changes have been made and the junior staff have started and leave them to it.

Yes I would agree with this. They are not doing you any favours so dont do them any.
You need advice from ACAS but I would not be taking on a load of extra shitty little jobs and training up the newbies without adequate recompense.

This is a fair point. But I think because my organisation is going through so many changes, it might be really quite difficult to replace me at short notice. I still need to take most of my annual leave so realistically, if I decided to leave in early June I would only be around for a month or so before my holiday period and then I'd be gone. It's doable, and I guess that is a choice they could go for, but it would be quite stressful at a time of so many changes in the organisation.

Sure, and as I say, if you don’t ask you don’t get. I just think most people overestimate their worth to employers. At the end of the day, everyone is replaceable and all work can be absorbed. If they are in financial difficulty then saving money may their top priority if they are going to lose you anyway.

The job market is dire right now, so they’d likely get a lot of candidates.

They would definitely get swamped with candidates, especially in my sector. Yes, maybe I haven't got the leverage I think I have.

The most likely thing is that they will just pick one of the other people who were going to be made redundant and keep them on instead of you.

It’s voluntary severance and not quite the same as being made compulsory redundant . If they follow procedure there is no recourse because they are not making the posts redundant, My DH applied for his works voluntary severance scheme, they were shocked as he was head of the entire department but as only three members of staff came forward out of fifty, they did let him go. He was the one person who wasn’t ’on their spreadsheet ‘ of costings. They did mess up though and he did work for them as a consultant for a 3 month stint almost straight away and then for a further month 5 months later. He got a lot of money over those 4 months. He was obviously replaced immediately.

You can attempt to negotiate some sort of recompense but only do this if you are prepared for a no and prepared to walk out the door if you think you won’t handle how it will make you feel.

What you need to do is work out the sums, look at your outgoings over the last year, factor in inflation and then there are the unanswered questions such as are you solo, mortgage paid off or renting and do you still have dependants? My friend is about your age and still has two school age children, at 55 her youngest will only be 10.

This is unlikely because they don't need to go down the redundancy route, as there more staff have applied for Voluntary Severance than expected.

Thank you for your earlier message though, it gave me a good angle for the negotiation. I will go ahead with it even if the chances of a successful outcome are not great, and then leave if need be.

I'm solo, no staff, mortgage paid off but I do have children who need my support. My husband works full-time too. And the opportunities for my business are really there, but I need time to develop them.

What I don't want to do is what I've been doing so far, basically working flat out and nearly burning out. Leaving my job means keeping a work-life balance and preserving my sanity, and the financial rewards are likely to be much better in the middle to long term.