Can social services place a baby with family against the mother's wishes?

[BreezyBrie]

My cousin is pregnant and there’s a possibility baby may be removed at birth. She has been NC with her family for a few years. As a teen she had involvement so they are already aware of immediate family details etc.

She is very concerned that if this happens SS will first look to family to care for baby. Is she allowed to specify for this not to happen and she would only want professional foster carers not family?

She did ask me but it’s not something I would be able to do although I’m trying to support in other ways . She is just worried about her mother or one of her sisters getting the baby.

Family will always be considered first as every single statistic in every single factor shows that a child is more successful when placed with family over foster carers. They flourish better, have better relationships, do better in school, and there’s far less chance of the placement breaking down and the child having to be moved. Of course if there’s issues with the actual family that will be detrimental to the child, ss should be notified of this and it will definitely be considered.

SS always look at family first. They will consider any family members who come forward not just the grandparents and an assessment will be done. They will also consider the father and his family. If no family member is deemed suitable then the child will go into care. The mother can certainly tell the SW her concerns about her family members and this will be considered as part of the assessment. I don't know about all areas but our LA support kinship carers and closely monitor them, especially in the early days.

Yes the misdiagnosis was EUPD.

i will have a proper read of replies when home from work

Generally kids who are placed with family have better outcomes but that depends on the family being safe and appropriate and able to facilitate contact with birth parent if suitable.

So I'd say the mothers wishes will be taken into consideration but if they assessed mum to be unsafe right now to care for baby they can petition court to assume parental responsibility or get shared parental responsibility and then they will have more power to decide where is best for baby to go. Anyone in consideration would need to be fully assessed and it would be based on what's in the best interest of the baby. So if mum has concerns she needs to be very up front with her social worker about it.

Ultimately mums past won't completely determine what decision is made as they'll look at how she's doing now, how well she's engaging with support and their recommendations and if she can safely look after baby and make good decisions. As a first step they should always be looking at how mum can be supported to keep baby with her as that going well is always the best option. Second to that I'd say there will be an element of conversation over who else mum would consider suitable.

It's not about family care being cheaper, its about what sets the child up for the best outcomes in terms of social inclusion, education, health and wellbeing. Being in Foster care as opposed to kinship care makes a huge difference.

Also does she have a support worker and an advocate? They'd be able to help her navigate the gp notes issue and also any meetings with the social workers.

Social Services will act in the best interests of the child.

The best interests of the mother do not matter.

It sounds as though she is very keen to put blame on her family but isn't taking much accountability for her own part in this situation.

I hate to sound harsh, but why get pregnant again knowing that the baby will be removed (either to family or not)
Why put yourself and your child through this?
Taking a new born child away from it's mother is absolutely not a decision that is taken lightly.
She obviously poses a threat of severe neglect or danger to the baby.

A baby isn’t removed just because if a personality disorder - whether it’s an old diagnosis or not. The will be a lot more concerns than just this. Is she definitely being truthful with you?

Although the baby’s father is not on the scene, his family could still care for the child, if they were willing.

I think you misread maybe start again?

She aware this wasn’t the best choice. Initially she was back and forth and got the pills for medical termination but then didn’t take them. Between 14 and 18 weeks she booked and rescheduled surgical termination 3 times and presented as distressed and depressed and this is what triggered off a MH referral to perinatal health and more SS involvement. It’s a very complex situation. I think she knows she’s not in a position to have the baby and have no involvement. A mother and baby placement is the ideal but if not she just wants the baby to be with independent people, professional foster carers who will facilitate not sabotage contact.

Im treading carefully asking too much about the father as it seems to be a sensitive subject and I’m trying to help without making things worse. I wish I could offer to help but I’m no position at all to take on a baby.

No i read correctly

I was asking if the op could help her in supporting her being the mother- not take the baby herself.

Op, bless you, what a tough situation. I do hope that she gets the support she needs to be a mum

I am firmly of the opinion that biological 'family' isnt better for a newborn as much as being wanted and loved by (adoptive) parents is

It's unlikely that if the baby goes to foster care outside the family that, unless she is able to turn things around massively, that will be longterm and there is more than a chance that adoption would be considered, in the best interests of the child. It isn't an open ended timeframe at all, for very good reasons.

I’ve unfortunately had to be in this position and the truth is, if the SW team want a family placement, they can and will make the assessment fit what they want.

In my case, I provided hard, irrefutable evidence of the grandparents to the court showing they were not only unsuitable but a danger and abusive. It wasn’t even ‘allegations’ at this point. It was still dismissed and a the SGO recommendation was positive. I was begging for foster care, it was really scary to think about how that could have ended. Thankfully, it never manifested in the end.

All your niece can do is present her case clearly and professionally and gather any evidence. Ideally, the baby is able to stay with her (if safe) - you mentioned it’s a ‘possibility’ that baby under a care order. She needs to do any work required and get herself into a stable position. If this is in court, she’ll have legal counsel? They’re the best people to ask

@mumofoneAloneandwell

The baby hasn't been born yet. No decisions have been made

Babies aren't just handed over without process being followed

I agree with this 100 per cent. And I am an adopter twice over. I find it disgusting that women are punished by society for their mental health issues in this way. Usually on the grounds of ‘possible future harm’. As if any one of us has a crystal ball. And before anyone accuses me of being part of the problem, yes, I agree.

It's not about punishing the mother.

It is absolutely about keeping a child safe.
The woman the OP is referring to appears to accept that the baby will be taken away from her. She must know why and that she is not fit to look after a child.
I have worked with many women who continue to have children just for them to be taken away from them at birth. It's frustrating to see time and time again.
Do you remember the case of Constance Marten, her partner Mark Gordon and their fifth child Victoria? Victoria should have been removed from them at birth, she wasn't and they killed her / sentenced her to death.

This, I actually find it more distressing the posters who seem to have the sainted, poor victim mother viewpoint and how everything must always be someone else’s fault.

Not sure anyone has said or implied “sainted”

Firstly, there is no mention of SS 'handing her baby' over to her family. The OP's friend is worried that this could happen.

Secondly, the family would have to want to take on the child.

Thirdly, they'd have to agree to be assessed as kinship carers and then be assessed as suitable.

Fourthly, the court will make the final decision in the best interests of the child.

No one, least of all Social Services, will be 'handing her baby over' to anyone.

??

The long and short of your comments to me are

The baby can be handed to the woman's parents. Only this point is spread out across 4 rather patronising sentences

I think that this is wrong and that the baby should get a fresh start away away the family who caused the woman so much distress in the first place. Or stay with her mother who recieves the appropriate support to start a life away from her triggers.

Either way, hopefully the op and baby will be okay

If she has a diagnosis of ASD, she is entitled to be supported by an advocate under the Autism Act 2009 as part of the process.

This

I think adoption is there for a reason, as is fostering and open adoption

Sometimes the best thing for a baby is a fresh start.

The mothers needs should factor in, in this case. What we know about the woman is that she is unstable and tried to abort the baby various times, afaik. This doesnt sound like a nonce or child abuser, who obviously should have no say in anything ever.

You don't know the parents. You don't know the woman.

If her parents are assessed as capable and want to have care of the child, they could be considered. It's not a foregone conclusion and it's an in depth process. They won't ignore the OP's experience.

The court will make the final decision.

Removing a child from its parents is a very expensive process and that's just the process of removing them. SS don't remove a child from its parents if they can be supported to stay with them.

SS will consider all options. If the court agrees with SS that removal is appropriate, then it will be because the mum has demonstrated that she can't be supported to keep the child with her in a way that is dlsafe for the child.

Courts make the final decision, not SS.

And, ar this stage, it is only something she is worried about, not something that is happening.

None of us know the circumstances? This is an chat forum ??

Thank you again for expanding further on your four points, which, again, state the process by which the parents could be given the baby

Its this possibility that is being discussed here. Noone has stated what will definitely happen, least of all me.

This is an awful potential outcome that would harm the baby and mother, imo. Which is what I've stated.

I personally hope the op and baby get the best outcome for them, which doesnt sound like it would be being raised by the parents