Do the police approve of 'paedo hunter' groups?

[lavenderscenteddrawerliners]

Perhaps approve is the wrong word, but do the police appreciate the work of these groups? Would they rather they didn't act as decoys or 'stingers'? I'm asking as I saw a live on Facebook where a hunter group went to the house of a man who had been online grooming a young teen. The police came, man was taken away. The main hunter guy said something along the lines of "the police work very well with us" and it made me wonder do the police think these hunters are doing a good job?

They’re a nightmare. Very often they live stream what they are doing and end up weakening cases the police already have.

They also have no actual care or respect for victims - one recent one locally continued to live stream while the guy they targeted talked about two people who’d accused him, so everyone who watched that stream knows the identities of two victims.

No. They’re awful, ignorant and often misinformed. They hemp no one except their own egos.

I understand why they do it, because they're just attention seeking content creators like every other fool. This is just their 'thing'. I don't understand why the police play along.

That wouldn't suprise me in the slightest.

Yet on the other hand it's bleak how many people get away with things because the police are under resourced

These are the people who would have probably accused women of being witches in the past.

They should stay well out of it and let the police do their jobs properly.

Very often the police have to remove the target for their safety, not necessarily because the hunters have handed over enough information for them to be arrested.

It's just a witch hunt where they are judge, jury and executioner. If they are right they probably wreck the chances of prosecution and when they are wrong they blight people's lives, innocent people have to leave their homes, no smoke without fire, so they are never fully trusted again locally. If anyone has suspicions that someone is a paedo pass the information on to the police.

They are invariably the first people who should be having their hard drives seized.

Agree.

I don't understand why more isn't done to stop them ?
Vigilante mobs aren't allowed in relation to any other crime.

I know a probation officer who says the "paedo hunters" are generally considered a fucking liability by the police and justice services.

You wouldn't hear about the ones which have been stopped.

Doubt it
if there doing it for the greater good there no need to stream it
the majority of cases they seem to target men with special needs which is even more important they get it right and follow the correct procedures

That's true!

The "public" is totally incapable of any sort of objectivity over anything remotely related to the abuse of children, and given that one of the far-right's latest wheezes is griping about "two tier policing", it would just be used as shit to sling at the police and other authorities, the assertion being they are "protecting peeeeedos!!!!!1111!!!!".

The fact the people doing this appear to believe that vigilantism is some sort of public service suggests their moral compass is wholly dysfunctional to begin with, so no, they really shouldn't be given any leeway at all. The ones who do actually know what they are doing will be careful to not actually break any laws themselves, but why on earth some of them feel the need to pitch up on people's front doors while awaiting the police, film it, and then upload it to their own sites I can only put down to a desperate form of self-aggrandisement. In any other respect, if you have information about potential crimes and criminals, you hand it to the police and let them get on with their jobs.

Because they do it to monetise off of. That’s why I’m not a fan. They don’t do it to save the children, they do it to line their pockets as they make it in to a reality show. “Like and subscribe!!” 🙄

I also think in those instances where these hunters pose as underage kids, I’m guessing no crime has been committed? Because they’re not talking to a kid, they’re talking to a 45yo bloke in his underpants.

WYP tried to take a group to court but I think they were cleared.

the police hate them.

these groups tell the public the police don’t do anything so they are doing police work. Lies of course, but the police can’t publicise their tactics or live stream arrests, ergo they “do nothing”.

like Our Tommeh who nearly brought down years of work and the conviction of 30 grooming gang members because he felt the need to “report” the court proceedings.

Gathering evidence under PACE to ensure it can be used in court is exceptionally strict, the slightest slip and it can be jumped on by the defence and jeopardise the whole investigation.
These groups have no idea of what they would need to do, they cause more harm than good. There’s already covert operations doing exactly what they are doing but within the legislation. They need to stop

It’s still an offence if you engage in sexual conversation with someone you think is a child.

I’m a cop, I’ve dealt with two of these situations as a response cop. On neither occasion was it a pre planned operation with us, they just called 999 when they got there.

The first occasion, a huge group wearing hoodies with their group logo on were there. To be fair none of them were being especially aggressive but when we asked them to come to the station and give a statement they quickly melted away. The woman who was the decoy seemed genuinely lovely and was wanting to help kids. But she was nonplussed when we said we’d need a detailed statement and said the organisers just said she’d need to hand over screen shots of the conversation and that would be it.

The second were a bit more dodgy, they rocked up at a house at 4am. As it happened the suspect didn’t live there it was his parents. They didn’t outright say they were police officers but were standing there in stab vests with body cams saying their son was going to get arrested and they’d be perverting the course of justice if they didn’t say where he was. So they gave his new address.

They then filmed the arrest and live streamed it. I looked at it later and could hear my voice on it. That was posted to a stream of comments along the lines of ‘your all heroes saving are kids’ and similar.

They very nearly effed off back to where they’d come from without giving any evidence over at all until I said they had to back up what they said.

Having said that I have on occasion seen news reports of convictions after a ‘sting’ of this nature do some must do a more thorough job.

Wasn't there a group of them who falsely accused a disabled man and someone set fire to him? I remember seeing it in the news but I don't fancy googling it.

No it is still a crime, albeit a lesser one. It's 'attempting to incite a child to sexual activity' and the sentence is less to reflect the fact there was no actual child.

As above though, I'm sure these vigilante groups often cause the police and CPS problems.

People lose their minds when it comes to CSA. A convicted paedophile who had served his time and been released lived in our town. People kept smashing his windows and graffitiing on his door. A friend of mine happened to live next door (terraced house) She and her family and all other neighbours were terrified that some idiot would set fire to his house and the whole terrace would go up. Eventually he died and people still kept targeting his house. Eventually the estate agent put a sign up saying 'the man who lived here is dead, please stop targeting this building as this is causing fear to local families and children.'

Given that even when cases to manage to get to court the sentences are often pitiful if they happen to get there at all I’ve increasingly thought at least some of these blokes will be fucking terrified of trying to groom children on-line again.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8370860/

Long term recidivism rates were 42%, child molesters are extremely dangerous and should not be anywhere near children.

I think they should be banned. The cases I have seen tend to target vulnerable people. The hunters themselves had a dark history and were involved with a ex police officer who had been sacked for corruption. They create crime and frankly who is abusing who?

inevitably though the paedo hunters catch the easy targets. They don’t have the knowledge, expertise or access to some of the dark web and other stuff.

so they “catch” jimmy, age 40 with the mind of an 11 year old. Or bob with severe autism who still lives with his parents. The people who aren’t fully able to understand that they can’t talk to 12 year olds who look older on Snapchat and think they’re in a relationship.

if they don’t put their evidence packs together all that happens is these people go free and learn to use platforms where they aren’t so detectable.

so no, I don’t think it has any effect on offending at all.