What do Christians make of the crosses at the Tommy Robinson march?

[noblegiraffe]

I'm an atheist so my reaction is 'co-opting the imagery of the Crusades because these people hate Muslims'. But it's not my religion and not my imagery.

What do Christians think about the huge amount of wooden crosses being available for protesters on the Tommy Robinson march to pick up and march with?

@BluebellShmoobell, please do respond to my question. I'm really interested in getting an understanding of your thinking.

In the US it’s largely Christian groups bringing over refugees (especially non-Christians strangely) and it’s fucking annoying. They want to be moral and pious and destroy our communities so they can feel good. As if we didn’t have enough problems in my home country, they have to make everything worse with their shortsightedness.

Kind of like how their anti-abortion stance leads to ever more broken homes, poverty and dysfunction. Oh, but I guess you felt good for a fucking day, so WORTH IT.

Unbelievable. If this is what Christianity gets you, may as well leave it behind.

@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack

Maybe it was some of these passages?

Leviticus 19:33-34: "When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God."

Hebrews 13:2: "Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it."

Exodus 22:21: "Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt."

Matthew 25:35: "For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in."

A brown middle eastern man who preached to love one another would have marched with the far right? Are you a troll? If not please go and read the bible, the gospels at least.

I don't think she will. There is no basis in scripture for the hatred that Tommy Robinson espouses.

A Jewish man from 2000 years ago may as well be from a different planet. And idk he whacked out and whipped people who were overcharging on money changing fees, so how much love did this guy really have?

It's not from looking at them. It's from demographic breakdowns of voters. Research has shown that over fifty percent of persistently unemployed people back the Reform party. Now if we polled the average person on the march most I would guess plan on voting for Reform, Restore, Advance etc. I highly doubt that there were many Lib Dems or Greens out there on Saturday.

Also, hyperbole much. The 'most judgemental comment you've ever read'. If that's honestly the most judgemental comment you've ever read, have you read very much?

Well, I would like to see her try.

I think, as I alluded to up thread, that one can acknowledge why there is a feeling of resentment and discontent from those on the marches, without compromising one's Christian faith.
It is interesting that the socio-economic class of the protesters has been brought up, because one of the issues with the mass immigration of recent years is that the burden has been unevenly felt across British society. We can quote bible verses at each other all day long, but it is obvious that migration brings both positive and negative impacts to a nation. It is very easy to feel good about yourself as you welcome the foreigner, when you live in an area that hasn't actually welcomed any of those foreigners. Treating those who have experienced some of the negative effects of high migration (low wage growth, lack of housing, and yes, some crime etc.) with derision rather than compassion is also not very Christian, in my opinion.
The hard thing is to sit down and listen to those grievances and acknowledge them. There are no easy answers here.

CofE here, my God does not teach racism, intolerance and division. I'm livid they have taken the cross as a symbol of everything Jesus opposed. Shame on them.

And yet your god authorized slavery, threatened to force people to eat their own children, commanded the Israelites to annihilate neighbouring tribes, considered women to be property, and drowned millions of children because he couldn't tolerate them, according to the Bible.

If you are talking about the God of the Old Testament, then he is shared with several other religions….

Even this atheist knows the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament.

Are you a Christian? If you are not, then I need to point out that none of us who were Christians were actually brimming over with Christian qualities before we accepted Christ into our lives. God often brings in the worst sinners. Look at the story of Paul who was persecuting new Christians before his dramatic conversion. He signed off on the murder of Stephen, the first Christian martyr. He was very far from living up to Christian values. Yet God chose him and transformed him. God can transform TR in the same way. Yes it is very early days for him, but it can happen. Don't ever underestimate the power of the Holy Spirit.

I think I’m even less likely to believe in the redemption of Tommy Robinson than I am to believe in the redemption of Russell Brand who has also conveniently found God exactly when it suited him.

The trouble is, lots of people claim to be Christians but seemingly make no effort to live their lives in accordance with so-called "Christian values". I expect we all know people who have been involved in the church for decades but still appear to lack any kind of moral compass. So has the Holy Spirit failed to work on those people or what?

Personally, I will believe in the transformation of Tommy Robinson when, and only when, he renounces all of his hateful views and takes positive action to try to undo the great damage that he has done. Until such time, I will continue to believe that his "conversion" is motivated by political expediency alone. It is pure posturing and nothing else.

The Holy Spirit could tranform TR im the future, but that's not what's happening at the moment. At the moment TR is twisting Christianity to suit his own agenda.

You have to actively allow the Holy Spirit to do his work. Yes, there are many so-called Christians who don't do this. Whether they are actually saved Christians is debatable, only God knows, but if they are, then they are stagnating, and from personal experience I find the Holy Spirit keeps prodding me (my conscience) about certain things so that I do in fact change. Engaging with Scripture, discussing in Bible study, prayer, praise and fellowship are all necessary and help this process. Not always easy but I want to have that transformation take place. It may be that some find this too uncomfortable so they stay pretty much as they are, which isn't what Christians are meant to do, we are meant to 'take up our cross' and follow in the footsteps of Jesus.

So no, the Holy Spirit hasn't 'failed', He will keep prodding them but if they choose to ignore Him, then they have failed. They need to repent.

Personally, I will believe in the transformation of Tommy Robinson when, and only when, he renounces all of his hateful views and takes positive action to try to undo the great damage that he has done.

That's a fair view!

I can liken it to some of the people who go to church to get into a church primary school primarily, as I have seen this happen many times. As many church primary schools do insist on attendance for years including for siblings, plenty of people do then join the community long term and become properly Christian. There are people in my church who joined 40 plus years ago just because of the school and openly admit that but then came to love the religion. So it does happen. It happens with a lot of prisoners too. Even if it happens to only 10 per cent, the church is very happy to welcome everyone in. It is a fundamental value of a Christian church that everyone is welcome into the faith and the community. You are christened to wash away your original sins and then you can do the alpha course. We do believe that everyone whatever sin they committed is loved by Jesus Christ and that the biggest sinners need that love the most.
I get that it is difficult for atheists to comprehend.

I grew up as a Christian and attending church. I no longer identify as a practicing Christian. The issue I have with TR is that I do not believe he is a genuine Christian in the slightest. I believe he sees it as a bandwagon to further his racist, anti Islam agenda and gain funding from the radical evangelical right in the US. I fully understand that someone's faith is between them and God. We're all sinners, and I give most people the benefit of the doubt, but TR is a charlatan and has done nothing which even slightly suggests he repents for the hatred and division he sows.

Didn't he take the money that people had funded for his defence, plead guilty and then go on a fancy holiday?

He does have a LOT of work to do and of course he will also be tempted to revert to old behaviours and patterns, that's why he needs a lot of mentoring and probably shouldn't be leading marches at the moment until that has been done. There's nothing wrong with not believing someone has changed until you see the fruit, otherwise it's all just words.

I agree with you both. Jesus said, ‘by their fruits you will know them.’ If Robinson has genuinely become a Christian, then we will see genuine transformation and repentance of the hatred he has been spreading.

And I agree that someone close to him should advise him to stop leading the marches for the time being. I would suggest that he should demonstrate the change in his life by stopping them altogether.

Sorry to disagree with you. 2 pieces of wood stuck together in the form of a cross are still 2 pieces of wood in the shape of a cross, whether blessed or not. The person doing the blessing is just that, an ordinary person.