What is a sensible amount of crisps, chocolate and biscuits to be eating?

[PuzzledObserver]

How much is a reasonable amount of chocolate and biscuits to eat - per day or per week?

And how much is too much?

This is for a man in his 60’s with high blood pressure who is obese

I actually don’t eat crisps, biscuits or chocolate myself, apart from 85% dark chocolate, usually 2 squares day, occasionally 4 squares. It didn’t used to be the case - I used to consume large quantities of all of the above, much larger than he is having.

I tried moderation, in the form a daily or weekly allowance. I tried it repeatedly for the best part of 60 years. And could never stick to it.

But complete abstinence, that I can do, and have been doing for 9 months now. It was a battle firstly to accept it was necessary, and then hard work to do it.

Complete abstinence isn’t necessary for everyone - just as some people (including me) can consume alcohol in moderation with no difficulty at all, the alcoholic can’t. I can’t consume sweets and savoury snacks in moderation, some people can.

It’s not for me to tell anyone else, including DH, that they are an addict and need to abstain, that’s a realisation for them to come to themselves. If indeed it is the case.

But the first step towards that realisation is often trying to moderate, and failing. Which means you need a target. This amount of sweets/snack food, this often, and no more than.

If he sets a sensible target, and sticks to it - hurray!! The rest of his diet is generally healthy and not excessive. I am confident he would lose weight if he stuck to a moderate intake of crisps, biscuits and chocolate. If he tries and fails, well then we have a different conversation.

But first we’ve got to have the one in which he goes beyond saying he wants to “do something” and spells out what it is he wants to do.

I am adamant that I am not going to bully or manipulate him into changes he’s not really willing to make. Quite apart from the whole personal autonomy issue, it’s pointless, because it won’t work long term.

He and I need to talk. I’m working on it.

Oh - a couple of people have mentioned GLP-1’s.

He wouldn’t qualify to get it on the NHS under current criteria, so we would have to pay. I’d be willing for us to do that, so long as he understood that they are a tool and a support, not the whole answer. As I see it, they make it a LOT easier to eat smaller quantities, but you still need to make good choices about what you eat.

I’m actually interested in trying a GLP-1 myself, as I have another 2.5-3 stone I could ideally do without, to add to the 8 stone which have already gone. But I seem to be becalmed on the threshold of overweight and obese.

🤣🤣 Good one!

I try to stick to none as many days as possible, but if I do have some then limit to one treat for the day whether that’s a small chocolate bar or one packet of crisps.

I’ve started eating healthier snacks like fruit or raw carrots, sometimes dried fruit but again in moderation because they are super high in sugar.

At least he's happy doing it!

I think it is easier to go Cold Turkey than it is to restrict the quantity of junk. There is no scope for eating too much if you don’t eat any.

I'm not trying to pick holes, but I am trying to understand where you're coming from. You said in your OP that he's obese. I just did a search to see if high blood pressure is a qualifier for a GLP-1, and the result I got (admittedly that's not watertight) said that it's considered a co-morbidity and should qualify someone with that plus a bmi of 27 as a candidate. And 27 is overweight but not obese, so either he should qualify or he's not as heavy as it sounds?

He wont get it on the NHS

OP - the WLI stop you wanting the sort of food that you're talking about, not just enable you to eat less in general. You get satisfied with fruit, veg, lower fat, low sugar foods in a way you may not previously.

Big fan of GLPs. It’s life changing for so many. But only if accompanied by lifestyle changes.

What you’ve quoted are the criteria for which it is licensed. It can be prescribed to anyone who meets those criteria.

BUT the NHS prescribing criteria are much tighter, basically because of the cost.

Unless it’s changed recently, the criteria to get it prescribed on the NHS are BMI of 40 or more AND 4 out of 5 specific comorbidities, which are: type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, dyslipidemia, sleep apnoea and existing cardiovascular disease. He has 3 of those and his BMI is not 40. So he will not qualify on the NHS, and I gather that you have to explore other pathways before the NHs will prescribe.

He is eligible to get it privately, as am I.

@Pinkfluffypencilcase thank you for wanting to support me.

Here is something I don’t understand:

I found daily limits helpful. I told my dietitian that I hadnt eaten crisps in 6 months and she said to choose lower salt crisps and it’s fine as a treat. I enjoyed that first bag greatly. I avoid family packs though.

Why would a dietitian encourage anyone to reintroduce a nutritionally empty food which they had found problematic, and which they had successfully eliminated? How is your nutrition better with it in?

It sounds like you have managed to reintroduce them in a way which is not escalating, and that’s good, given that it could have spectacularly backfired. But the fact remains that they are nutritionally empty and, if your weight is stable, then they are displacing other foods which would could potentially add important micronutrients to your diet.

Because you have to enjoy your food surely. No one (well very few people) eat for fuel only.

Its horses for courses of course because some people just wont be abl to eat crisps at all and some can manage a bag every now and then but they'll enjoy them.

Does no one ever eat any cake or go out for a nice meal?

Why would a dietitian encourage anyone to reintroduce a nutritionally empty food which they had found problematic, and which they had successfully eliminated? How is your nutrition better with it in?

Because life is about more than the "best nutrition".

See the thing is once you are eating clean-shop bought cake and crisps really aren't a treat for you.

For me the biggest treats are fresh berries, good cheese and seasonal veg.

@likelysuspect and @tiramisugelato

Absolutely people should enjoy their food (I enjoy mine) and it’s not all about perfect nutrition, of course.

The argument I’m making is about someone who has previously had a problem with overconsumption of a specific food which has no nutritional merit, and that person has successfully gone through the pain of removing it. They still enjoy their food, but without the problematic element.

To me, encouraging that person to start eating it again is analogous to suggesting to a former 20-a-day smoker who has quit that it would be fine to smoke a couple if they ever go to a party. Or to an alcoholic that they can have a couple of glasses of wine on the weekend. They are doing fine without it, why bring it back, when they have previously been unable to consume it in moderation?

One of my dc sees a dietician.

rule is generally 80:20- aim for 80% of your diet to be cooked from scratch, healthily, balanced.

the other 20% can be a treat/processed/whatever.

I’d had a medical episode and was close to death. So as part of my recovery I had a whole team round me including a dietitian.

She went through everything with me and concluded that it’s important for me to enjoy my food. She wanted what ever changes I made to be sustainable for me and being able to enjoy my food was important.

I don’t routinely buy crisps but I let the wave build then allow myself to indulge. And it’s the lowest salt I can find (0.5g per bag max).

For others cold turkey works best but for me it’s not banning anything and enjoying limited amounts.

As a whole she saw I didn’t eat lots of takeaways or drink alcohol or smoke

Because “healthy” is not just nutrition, it’s also around the mental issues many of us have with food.

we have to learn we can stop, we can leave something on the plate, to listen to our bodies and hunger signals.

you can’t go cold turkey and stop eating like you can with tobacco or alcohol. So we need to reprogram.

some people rules and deprivation around food means they can fall off the wagon. They haven’t learned they can have one biscuit and save the rest. So they have one and that’s it, they can’t stop.

”healthy eating” isn’t just what you eat, it’s how you eat as well. Mentally struggling not to eat “bad” food and “being good” and all that talk will never set you up with a healthy relationship with food.

The sensible amount is the portion size recommended on the packaging. But not all three in one day and every day if he's obese.

I dont buy shop bought cakes, I make my own. They're very enjoyable

I scratch cook vritually all my own food but still enjoy the odd crisp and biscuit or other things

No such thing as 'clean' because that infers that other food is 'dirty'. Not a balanced mindset to have.

Something I came across through listening to podcasts is that there is a dichotomy between the eating disorder and addiction camps.

In summary, the eating disorder camp recommends “all foods fit”, whereas the addiction camp understands that certain foods (not all food - specific foodstuffs) light the blue touch paper.

If someone is addicted to alcohol, or cocaine, and has managed to quit, no-one who has any sense at all would encourage them to try having just a little, because it’s enjoyable, and social, and all of that. But people think it’s fine with food.

Oh, I see. How frustrating!

I totally agree with this. Some people can moderate but how often do we hear people saying they try to and fail over and over. The only way is to kill the very real addiction by cutting it out. The nature of UPFs is that they're designed to be addictive, it's a very rare person that can learn to moderate their intake of this food, especially if they've had the habit since young, that's why weight loss injections are so popular, many people can't moderate.

I have one Ferrero Rocher every night at 9pm.

I am 35, 5ft2 and my BMI is bang on 18.5