What tax do you most hate

[Taxta]

I’m torn between stamp duty and inheritance tax.

Are you telling me you can't get life saving care going private?

Yes only the NHS deals with emergencies. Many friends I know have paid to go private for surgery they need. I always remember this story. Person goes to the NHS again and again year on year. Nothing gets done. Person pays for private care, issues gets diagnosed quickly and treatment plan divisied.

But the 'very small proportion of people' who are concerned about having their money stolen in IHT have generally already supported public services through PAYE and VAT much, much more than everyone else.

They object to having yet more stolen.

They just want everyone else to pay, just a bit. Not your fair share, heaven forbid! We're not expecting that much from you!! Just for you to contribute a bit more, instead of assuming you can steal more and more from us, over and over again.

That’s a bit presumptuous, I know a fair few people with enough for IHT to come into play who haven’t paid more than anyone else, they were just lucky enough to have bought 40 or50 years ago or their parents did in areas that are now very pricey or actually inherited large amounts themselves - 2 people I know sold businesses for around 1-2 million , but they were on fairly middling salaries before they sold -

But the 'very small proportion of people' who are concerned about having their money stolen in IHT have generally already supported public services through PAYE and VAT much, much more than everyone else.

How on earth have you come to that conclusion?!

Most estates that pay IHT is due to house values, much of which was unearned and down to luck re timing & location. Many parts of London that have expensive houses were completely different in the 80s & 90s

Exactly , as I said in my follow up post, people selling are ‘usually ‘ buying another and then would not pay it on their purchase, purely on their profit and I would set CGT ( rather than stamp duty) at a modest 3% . And those not buying again it is usually for death, debt or divorce so are usually at a point that selling is kind of necessary, not an option.

But many of us have been encouraged to make up the extra years when we weren't working so have paid voluntary contributions. That is not a tax, it is a contribution to a pension that we should be entitled to.

How much are voluntary contributions?

it is a contribution to a pension that we should be entitled to.

Hasn't stopped the age moving out to 68 despite no increase in healthy life expectancy.

Why is it 'sanctimonious' to feel glad that we have a welfare state supported by taxation, to which I am pleased to be able to contribute? Your phrasing says so much more about you than it does about me. I've already said that, were I to be more generously remunerated, I would welcome paying a greater proportion of my income in tax. My current (relatively) low salary is what it is -someone's got to teach, and teachers' salaries are fixed on a national pay scale. It's not as if I'm deliberately sitting tight in a lower tax bracket.

But I believe in the basic principles of redistribution of wealth, and question the ethics of wealth and asset hoarding. I could be persuaded to the argument of a basic universal income too.

It's very telling that overwhelming majority of people who support higher taxes are usually lower rate taxpayers themselves. Of course, if they were richer/better paid they'd be happy to pay more, what a shame they are net recipients now.
Those who don't have any wealth to pass onto children or not due to receive inheritance, or have very poor relationships with their parents / children are all happy with IHT.
Oh irony, everyone supports taxes they don't pay

Re: stamp duty, I think a rate of cgt on selling makes sense, but where would the shortfall in govt tax come from? Would it take into account interest paid on mortgages as well? SDLT in its current form is a blocker to moving.
Re: asset hoarding - a house selling for 999k to an only child, from a family where assets moved from one parent to another isn’t asset hoarding. A house selling for 650K from a single parent to three kids or a £450k flat left to nephews need to be taxed to avoid asset hoarding?
Someone owning two or three homes in a cheap area isn’t asset hoarding if they come in under 375/500/1m depending on who it’s left to?

There are taxes which don’t affect me which I disagree with e.g. vat on education. A PP mentioned if anything, money spent on this should be exempt from tax. This sounds fair as they are paying for a service that the state would have to otherwise provide. People having to pay to access treatment was also mentioned by same PP - that money should be tax free too. Unpopular opinion I know. Subsidising companies paying poor wages whilst making large profits seems off too. I don’t like the oft used counter argument of “get a higher paying job” to people in lower paying jobs.

Stamp duty

I think the reason IHT is so hated is because you're stealing from our kids.

Some taxes have a hugely disproportionate negative effect because they're not just about the money, they also change the way we understand our relationship with society: how we and our family fit in and what we can expect.

We're used to you stealing from us with redistributive taxation, and have absorbed the idea that 'we'll cope'.

It's annoying when you declare that the things our money pays for is only for other people, and we don't get to share the supposedly 'universal' services. That stings. When our generosity isn't reciprocated, it puts the whole 'support other people because you're part of a society' assumption into question. Means testing the state pension would be incredibly socially destructive because of this.

But when you stand between us and our children, and steal what we're trying to give them, that raises a protective anger which you underestimate at your peril.

The same protectiveness is behind the huge anger at private school VAT. I think Labour still have no idea what they've done. If society shows me that it doesn't value my child, that it will steal from her at every opportunity - rather than support and help her - it's worth nothing to me.

Income tax - I might be able to afford my life without it!

VAT - more tax after they’ve already taken a chunk of my income.

I would take a house being left to a child or grandchild out of IHT entirely. It seems really unfair for someone who is house rich but cash poor to have to sell a home to pay a tax.
IHT is a weird one because it can be fairly easy to avoid but equally if you’re unlucky you can get stung with a big bill. I would graduate the limits up so that you pay more, but on much higher inheritance.

As other have said, stamp duty is a stupid tax especially now houses are so expensive.

This is absolutely brilliant summary, agree with every word.

I think it's perfectly fair - if you don't hoard, you don't pay it.

People wait until they are in their 90s to give their kids anything. Give them money gradually from your 60s through to your 90s and you won't pay it, or far less. Beneficiaries are getting something for nothing - so they can't whinge about tax.

For me, I don't hate it, but it seems completely back to front - stamp duty. Surely you should pay tax if you sell, not if you buy,

My parents transferred a wad of money to me and we just verbally agreed that we wouldn’t touch it until they die so that if they need it for care, we’d pay for it out of that money.
Luckily they trust me!

as someone who has a business I’m anti VAT ( although a centre left voter) to me it seems fairly pointless because in many businesses unless it’s pure service business, you receive VAT but then claim back a lot of VAT on costs and goods purchased for the business- so effectively netting off - for instance with private schools, a lot of the schools themselves won’t be down, because whilst receiving vat, they will now be in a position of claiming back too on goods and services - it’s the parents who will be down unless somehow paying via a VAT registered ltd company ( and not sure how they could justify that)

all seems a bit of a merry go round and there’s lots of scope unfortunately for fraud -

I’m also a bit anti VAT because I have to do the VAT returns for our business 😁

Yep, So do I !!

Couldn’t agree more - the vast majority of people don’t pay it , especially if it’s one surviving parent who has died and who inherited partners allowance and a house is part of it - it’s up to a million pounds- maybe those in that position should look at downsizing or equity release years before and start giving it to family early if it’s that big a deal

None because although it's annoying to pay tax. I want to live in a society that has public services and they have to be paid for.