How can I raise concerns about my friend's involvement with her church?

[ThatLemonBee]

Im worried with a friends “ addiction “ for lack of better word . to her church.
one of my best friends is a member of a church called UCKG.
Its a extremely controversial church that has been investigated a lot of times , even accused of killing a child but above all for profiting from their members and bullying . A lot of other stuff too gay treatments , making members pay for blessings etc . They are bad , I mean anyone from the outside can see it’s more of q visit that a church .
I don’t think she believes all this church beliefs but she has been involved from her home country since she was a child ( African country ) .
im not religious at all so this sort of thing is not something I understand . Basically I think she is paying them more than she can afford , they are causing issues with her partner ( they have em together e for years have 3 kids together ) .
The issue is I don’t know how to bring it up and don’t want to loose her friendships .

As if she’ll listen to you if she’s doing this and has a partner and 3 kids already - if that isn’t enough for her to see sense, then you expressing concerns is not going to do a thing.

can you talk to her partner?

Leave her be.

Many people get involved into weird sects.

Keep the door open for her if she wants to talk.

You sound like a lovely friend.

Why are you friends with someone who believes gay conversion and bullying is the way forward.

Not to mention a deceased child.

You may end up tarred with the same brush.

Block all contact immediately.

If I was to tho k that way I would need to end all friendships with any catholic and Muslim friends too wouldn’t I ? Some times people just grow up this way but it’s not actually they believe in the majority of it . She is in no way homophobic

Yes her partner is best friends with my husband and we all get along amazingly . I never realised it was this bad until recently . I think her partner is desperate too

But why do you want this discussion?

Because I think it’s harming her family and her life decisions , I admit we have been friends for years and I never related the influence the church has on her so I’m unsure if it’s new that they have this much influence or if she kept somewhat hidden ?

Does this church create a community for her that she would feel bereft without?

I just feel the church is having a really bad influence on her , she is loosing money , she is refusing work opportunities and moving opportunities for her family . I honestly don’t care about others religious beliefs but it seems to be hurting them

Maybe ? I don’t know , she is not super social outside our own friendship group so I don’t think so

She has a partner

what do they think?

As far as I can see the same as me . I haven’t spoken openly with him , I didn’t realise this was as massive issue as I think it is . She rejected a job and house move this week because it would be to far from them after having a meeting where she asked them advise , her partner seemed really upset so spoke lightly about it with my husband but we gane by had a chance to be together since

You need to speak with the partner or your husband

you don’t know what’s going on

It sounds as if its one of those Evangelical 'churches' and she's pretty brainwashed already . I'd just both speak to the husband and watch out for her getting the children involved. I think children can be at risk from these kind of organisations and it would be them I'd be worried about .

I know of this "church" although many describe it as more of a cult. There seems to have been lots of investigations into them but no real action. There's a newer one following in their footsteps too, spac nation I think they're called.

A girl I went to school with mum was part of a UCKG church too, and the girl and her siblings would beg their mum to stop giving them all her money. The woman walked around with holes in her shoes because she gave them all her money as directed by them.

I don't think there's much you can do. She's a victim of them, but just like in a relationship where there's been brainwashing and coercion, the victim has to realise for themselves. You can point things out in a gentle way, otherwise they'll just tell her you're devilish or something and encourage her to cut you off.

I understand your concerns, an old colleague of mine was involved with them.. This was during the pandemic and she refused to let any of her family be vaccinated due to her beliefs and her husband and kids all have asthma. She was terrified of COVID though! She only got hers done in the end because we worked for frontline NHS services (she's not a healthcare worker though she's a SW) and for a brief period we were obliged to. She constantly refused flu jabs though.i don't know if her kids had the usual jabs. There's not a lot you can do though.,

That’s the one . I honestly feel sad she can’t see it . She takes the kids on the weekends with her too . But her partner completely refuses to have anything to do with it . He had on occasion complained she spends to much time with church related stuff and that listens to their sermons at night , she has recently complained about using her savings and I think it’s with them . But I admit I don’t know enough about this church’s structure to fully understand it , just a thy very acuity member is expected to give them a minimum of 10% of their money and more if they want to be blessed , whatever that means .

I came accross this church through a work matter. Needed to do some research on them. They are bad news. There's a survivors group you could reach out to survivinguniversaluk on instagram. Maybe reach out to them.

From everything I have seen, if she decides to leave the church they will pressure her and shame her into coming back. She has to be ready and be firm in her decision.

I'm not sure about marriages, but they have been known put pressure on people to leave their boyfriend or girlfriend who questioned things or who tried to encourage their partner away from the church. The victims are often giving more than 10% and the blessings are usually just praying for them, although some blessings are more strange.

There are probably videos on YouTube showing the workings of the group. I've seen short clips and it's really quite awful. I really don't understand how it's been allowed to go on for so long. If it were any other relationship and not a religious one I'm sure they'd be arrested

If you genuinely want to help, speak to her partner. He’s the one who is living with her. It’s his family money. It’s missed opportunities relating to his family etc. So really - if he doesn’t have a particular problem with it, you’re on a hiding to nothing. Especially as this church has been in her blood for decades and decades

Generally people don’t recognise that they’re in a cult, they only see that after they leave. It also rarely works to try and point out what’s wrong with a group you don’t belong to - if you’re not a member you don’t have credibility.

What might be helpful is to draw her attention to other cults, preferably something that isn’t too obviously similar to her own situation. Be patient if you try this approach because it takes time for the ideas to percolate. Cults train their members to close down their thoughts and to recognise “attacks” from outsiders. It takes some intricate mental gymnastics to break through, and it doesn’t happen fast.

I’d suggest focusing on a group like NXVIM because it’s different enough to be non threatening, there’s a documentary you can watch, there was a celebrity angle, and it’s thought provoking. And then back off a bit. Just sprinkle a few seeds, see if anything grows. Try again a few months.

These groups make me angry, exploiting vulnerable people is pretty much the exact opposite of what Christianity should be about... I suspect ideally it might help a bit if you could find someone who knows the Bible really well, preferably with their own faith/attending a more moderate church, who can discuss the issues using a similar type of language to what she is used to hearing from this group. Re the point about credibility of outside people above. Although I imagine they 'train' members to think any other church doesn't follow the true path or similar.... As others have said, if she has been involved for a long time it won't be easy and there is a limit to what you can do as she is an adult.

If anyone is not familiar with this type of group, the article below might be useful. The organization is a different one and the discussion focuses on students but might give a bit of an idea.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8e59zrxrypo