Relocating for PGCE - how to manage the uncertainty?

[DrUptonsNebulousDogwhistle]

Back story - DH and I both mid 40s, DS in Year 2, living in Yorkshire but no roots here. Family all over the place so not really a factor. I wfh and go to HQ in London every month for a few days. DH was made redundant last year and is looking at a major career change to go into secondary teaching.

The main issue is that the topic he wants to teach only has PGCE courses in 2 locations, which means a move south for us for the year of study. It may also mean a second move to a new area once DH is qualified.

I am fully supportive of DH’s plans to study, and am up for relocating - I like where we live but I don’t love it, plus a move south would help me be more visible in my job. We moved around a lot pre-DC, so the actual moving doesn’t phase us, but how to make it work for DS?

Finding a new home and settling in, finding a school for Yr3, balancing DH’s study with my work, and then potentially having to uproot and do it all again after DH qualifies. Hopefully we can stay in the same area for Y3-6 and move for secondary, but no guarantees as it will depend on job availability for DH.

We have a pretty cushy set-up here now, and I’m concerned that we are setting ourselves up for a difficult and stressful year. How can we prepare for this?

Any advice much appreciated 🙏🏻

Yes, I'm sure that it would be excellent training. As long as he understands that he may well have to relocate for employment as well.
Just a cursory glance for September shows 6 jobs available in his subject, one is for a HoD and two temporary mat leave/ pat leave. Compare that to jobs for History, say, and there's quite a difference. So this situation may not just be for the training, unless you decide to relocate as a family.

I’d be cautious about it ‘growing slowly’. Latin was offered at both my and my DH’s high schools (grammar/private) but it isn’t any more and I don’t know of any locally where it is.

I also would be wondering if he could get lodging for the week and come home at weekends.
I’d be wanting him to have had a real trial of teaching as a student before committing to moving. My BIL and my brother and his girlfriend all dropped out of PGCE courses (girlfriend had been classroom assistant for work experience so thought she knew what she was getting herself in for).
I would think him “commuting” would be enough of a strain and so keep everything else the same this year.
Then move when he gets a post.

I think you’d have to accept you might end up committing yourself to living in an expensive part of the country. In my region, there is no demand for Latin and Classics at all. Even MFL ca be hard- I trained as an MFL teacher with French as my first language, and it was starting to get hard to find jobs that wanted a primarily French teacher where I am, it had all gone to Spanish round me. German teachers were retiring and not being replaced. So I do think this is a teaching role that is quite vulnerable to cuts. You would need to be based somewhere with a consistent demand, which realistically is probably somewhere with a higher proportion of private schools, which might be somewhere pretty expensive. So make sure your finances can handle it I suppose!

Perhaps living between Cambridge and London would allow you to stay in the area post course. DS teaches at a London MAT and it isn't offered there. He could teach Latin but obviously doesn't. A couple of people he trained with at Oxford who did Classics stayed around the city, getting jobs in private schools.
I think asking Cambridge whether their students land up with jobs nationwide or mainly in London and the Home Counties might be useful.

Hiring childcare for one off situations or your regular in-work days will be a lot cheaper and more straightforward than moving and your dh will be around all the time for school holidays. When he is on school placements be won't be very available anyway.

Send him alone for the PGCE year. Dont uproot your child. Then move as a family when he has a job.

That is the subject my male relative teaches.

The private school where he’d been HOD for 8 years in the NW stopped teaching it, hence redundancy.

We live in the SE, my kids are at the local grammar. When DS1 started they taught Latin… it was cut by the time he reached y9.

why do you think its "in demand" if there are only three jobs in the whole country from September at starter level

Just seen he is thinking of teaching classics. If he has a good degree he may be able to get jobs in private schools teaching that without a PGCE. However, without a PGCE it might not be paid as well and could be peripatetic or through a supply agency. There are probably tutoring opportunities available to.

I thought labour had pulled all funding in state schools for Latin so it is a risky subject to go into. The jobs available in prep schools are often part time. In two of the schools I have worked in the Latin teachers also taught French. If he can speak another language it might be good for broadening his job options.

You need to stay where you are he moves to study. Comes home weekends holidays. Then once he’s found a permanent job you will move to that location.

Btw check where it’s taught. I think he should go for a more mainstream choice. It’s not taught where I am or where family are. South England various counties.

Our local comp. introduced Latin and Classics for GCSE and A level a few years ago. The teacher left and they couldn't recruit a replacement so it is no longer offered as an option and those who had started the courses are limping along with cover from teachers who 'did a bit of Latin at school' many years ago. It's a vicious circle.

If I were you, I would wave my DH off to uni for a year and get an au pair to cover any slack with childcare, if that was an option financially. That is, if I hadn't managed to talk him out of retraining as a Classics teacher in the first place...

Yes, there's also the problem of year on year uncertainty with these kinds of subjects. If there are only 5 students opting for it, say, then they can't afford to run it. Every year there are enough students for Geography, Spanish etc, but low uptake subjects are always under threat.

As a current MFL trainee teacher about to qualify, languages are being cut and there are likely going to be redundancies in the large trust I work for, due to the disappearance of the EBacc and more schools no longer encouraging students to take a language for GCSE. Consequently jobs around here in French are few and far between and I am being encouraged to be willing to teach outside my subject.
PGCE courses do offer SKE courses (Subject Knowledge Enhancement) prior to starting so he can train to do PGCE in a subject that isnt his degree (eg one he did at A level).
I would think carefully about this and hand on heart can't say I would recommend teaching (especially not in a niche subject).

On TES there are 18 jobs when I did separate searches for Latin and Classics. Some were combined roles. And most were part time or fixed term. On the other major teacher recruitment site there is 1 Classics job and Latin isn’t even a category!

So, at peak teacher recruitment time the jobs are very few and far between and aren’t even permanent roles. I would advise extreme caution.

A lot of the PGCE involves placement schools. Would there be the opportunity for him to complete his placements in your current area and only travel to the University on Lecture days?

As others have said I would be cautious thinking this is a growing subject - perhaps check out TES vacancies and see what is actually currently available. He should also consider what else he could/would teach as this would not take up a full timetable. E.g. Drama/English Art/Textiles …

Is there a more mainstream subject he can do his PCGE in? He can offer Latin/Classics as an additional subject.

I really urge caution doing something so niche for all the reasons PP have suggested. He will struggle to find jobs.

I would be very cautious about uprooting your family for a PGCE. When I did mine I had no life outside of work - it’s so full on. As others have said, your husband will not be able to be present much anyway for family life so it makes more sense for him to live in accommodation during the week and come home at weekends rather than all of you having to move and your son having to change schools. Especially as there’s no guarantee your husband will be able to get a local job afterwards.

However, I would also echo other posters on the viability of Latin/Classics as a career. It is a dying subject largely taught in private schools and preps in the SE. Many of these schools are also in financial straits - so many schools are closing and merging at the moment. It’s a challenging time for private education (I teach in the independent sector myself) and I would not want to be putting myself in a position where I was limited to only being able to teach within an independent school.

Niche options subjects are also always on the edge of financial viability as many schools can’t afford to let a class run with just 3 or 4 kids, so they are vulnerable to being cut if there aren’t enough signups for GCSE or A Level in a given year. If you don’t have enough students for a GCSE or A Level class, you could be asked to go part time or be made to fill in the gaps in your timetable by teaching other subjects you’re not qualified to teach. It’s not a great position to be in and can cause a lot of anxiety due to the uncertainty.

What is your husband’s actual degree and work experience? He would be far better off training in a mainstream curriculum subject if he can. If he trained in History or English (many ITT providers would accept him for these subjects with a Classics degree) then he would be in a much better position to find work. Once in a school, he could then offer Latin as an extra, but it is going to be realistically very difficult for him to find a secure job if he qualifies just in Latin/Classics.

I think he needs to do much more research than he currently has about his job prospects. For someone at his stage of life with family responsibilities, school centred training (SCITT) local to where you currently live in a mainstream curriculum subject is the most sensible way into the profession.

I would be very wary of moving, as others have said it makes more sense for him to relocate temporarily by himself although I acknowledge the childcare issues- could you get a short-term nanny?
It is a very niche subject, the PGCE is a notoriously tough year (I’ve done it) and there is a high drop out rate. There aren’t a huge amount of jobs out there for this subject and in the present economic situation STEM is much more in demand. I’m in higher education and I know that many universities are cutting back or closing classical civilisation and language courses, so there is much less call for A levels/GCSEs in this field. He could give it a go, however I wouldn’t move the family.

This is good advice, many teachers cover different subjects, e.g. media studies/English.

@DrUptonsNebulousDogwhistle the way the PGCE is set up, there is no guarantee your DH would be in a school convenient to your home anyway (although I appreciate fewer schools to choose from in classics/Latin) so you may find you still need additional childcare on your London days.

I think he should look into working in a private school unqualified, and they will support him through QTS if appropriate in the future (this is what my Latin teacher did at A Level), or a more mainstream subject to be honest. You’re looking at a huge amount of upheaval for the whole family, for potentially no gain at all.

Sorry OP, I think your DH would be very unwise to train in Latin and Classics, and I think you would be even more unwise to uproot your family for him to do it.

I wouldn’t generally recommend teaching as a career, but one advantage is the availability of jobs. If he has any other option, I wouldn’t recommending limiting himself to a subject that is in low demand.

I would stear clear of niche subjects like that op. Private schools are struggling and closing. State schools are removing niche / smaller subjects from there curriculum at an alarming rate, even 6th forms are closing around here. History with classics as an add on might be a safer bet, having a more core subject you can teach would make you more employable. Schools want their monies worth these days. I know a few teachers who teach both.