Anyone else been served a Section 21 recently?

[CoodleMoodle]

We were served a S21 on the 23rd of Feb. We've lived in our house for nearly 10 years so it was a real shock, but we're assuming the landlord wants to sell (we haven't been able to get in contact with him, and neither have the letting agents - they're only an introductory agent but we rang them to see if they'd heard from him and they said they couldn't get hold of him). DH was initially hopeful that there were some things wrong with the S21, particularly the gas certificate (the landlord's house number was missing, for example), but it's not looking likely so we've accepted that we'll have to move sooner rather than later.

In our town (large one in West Sussex) there are currently a maximum of 18 3 bed rental properties at any given time. I check constantly. We're not looking for a mansion, just something big enough for the four of us and for DH to WFH! We have DD in Y7 and DS in Y3, they're both happy and settled in school, and moving them would be the worst possible thing we could do. Both are autistic and moving house is going to be hard enough on them without the extra stress of a new school. I told them about it tonight and they were both very upset, but understood it's going to happen.

We've got a viewing tomorrow evening for a house around the corner which would be good for us, but there are other people scheduled to see it as well and I have a horrible feeling they'll get picked over us (see below). I think that's going to happen wherever we try, if there are other people vying for the property as well.

The frustrating thing is that we have a deposit saved up, and DH makes a decent amount of money (£72k). But he was made redundant last Summer, and decided to start his own company (tech based) after being in full time employment since 2013. This has been going very well and he's got a business partner and an investor and a lot of interest, but because he's only been self-employed for 7ish months, getting a mortgage is a no-go. One advisor did say that after filing taxes etc in April we might have a better chance, but it's still doubtful. DH has offered to become an employee of his company and give up being a Director, some advisors say that's fine, others have been more wary. We were in a much better position to buy a house last year, but what with my DM passing away in very traumatic circumstances and having to clear her house out, we weren't really in the right frame of mind to do it. Our biggest regret!

I'm not currently working, mostly due to health but also because I was DM's carer for a very long time, alongside being a SAHM. It made more financial sense for us not to put the DC into childcare and I was happy at home with them. Then DM's health declined and I had to up my caring duties for a good few years. But me getting a job really isn't going to help our current situation, and it's not really feasible at the moment with DH's work. Sometimes he finds out that he's off to Liverpool for a 2 day conference the night before and we have no childcare at all.

We've been perfect tenants and have only asked for a few repairs over the years - mostly bathroom related, like when the toilet was taking 45mins to full and the shower stopped working. We've always paid the rent, never caused a fuss, never been a nuisance, always done our best to look after the place. We've been renting since we were students and have never been an issue in any of our homes, actually. I know that doesn't count for much, really.

We've filled in the forms with the council, and are waiting for them to come back to us but I don't think they will until we go over the 2 months. I know we don't have to leave on the 23rd of April or anything, and it could take months to get to an actual eviction and so on, but I'm still very worried. DM and I were evicted when I was a teenager thanks to my Father buggering off and not paying the mortgage, and it got to the point of balliffs. It was incredibly harrowing and I do not want to put us through that, especially the DC.

I'm not looking for advice particularly so I'm not sure why I'm posting. I think I just wanted to get it all out somehow and look for solidarity with anyone going through similar. I know we're in a much better position financially than some people are and we're definitely not the only tenants being asked to leave right now, but it's still shit and I'm fed up with it already! Every time it starts looking slightly positive, something happens to bring it right back down again and I'm really struggling with it all.

Hi I haven't been served with a s21.

Waiting for eviction is sort of 'good advice' if you end goal is to end up in temporary accomodation while you wait for a council house. I don't really know anything about council housing eligibility so I'm not going to attempt to advise but my general understanding is that you are not going to be eligible on the basis that you a) have a good income b) have savings and c) could afford a house adequate for your legal needs (not practical wants) through the private market.

If you want any hope of ever getting a private rental again or buying your own house, please for the love of god do not sit tight and wait to be evicted. No decent landlord of any decent property will touch you with a bargepole without a reference, and if your landlord sues you your credit rating could be destroyed for 6 years.

Please don't do this. Rent a 2 bed flat if you need to and you and your husband sleep in the living room while you regularise his income for mortgage affordability and get your own place.

With children that age there really is no excuse not to be working you are going to find it hard to be accepted for rentals with you having no income and your husband in a new business

Sue for what? And you don't get anything on your credit file from a judgement, unless you don't pay within a month. If you do, it is like nothing ever happened. Getting evicted is impossible to find for a mortgage company, and they wouldn't be looking because it is a normal legal process not a negative bad thing. Suggesting otherwise is wrong, and different to advising to not do it for any real reasons.

You don't even have to go to eviction necessarily, a section 21 doesn't end the tenancy, any landlord knows this. Going to court to end it after is the normal correct process, not something strange. So at the very least staying for that is fine.

consider offering the new rental eg 6 months upfront rental - that could make you v attractive

Speak to Shelter, they are experts on all sorts of housing matters, not just homelessness

Have you spoken to a specialist mortgage advisor regarding the mortgage? You may pay more interest for a couple of years but might be worth it for the security of owning your own home? Have a look on Mortgage Advice for all (UK) on Facebook. There are lots of specialist brokers on there.

Please don’t move out until you have somewhere to go. The courts are back logged and will take forever for your case to be seen. Keep paying your rent and there is no reason to ‘sue you’ as someone above said.

Read up on the renters reform rules that come into effect on the 1st May. Likely why he has decided to move you on, but an S21 doesn’t end the tenancy.

Any estate agent or normal landlord will require referencing as part of you applying to let a new property. You're not going to get far if that discloses "nice enough tenants, paid rent on time and looked after place but refused to move out when served with notice and took me 15 months of court action to get rid of them".

As to suing you, the landlord could get possession back (eventually) and then bring proceedings against you for damages for anything under the sun really - interest paid on their mortgage while you were preventing them selling their house, rent they had to pay because you were preventing them moving back into their home, standby fees they had to pay their builder while the builder is on standby because you won't vacate and let the builder in to commence the works the seller engaged him to perform. Difference between open market rent and what he received from you while you were waiting to be evicted? Depends why seller is selling! If you refusing to move out causes the seller loss, they would have a basis to bring proceedings against you. Will they? Probably not for £2k, they'll just be glad to see the back of you. £10k? They might take a gamble knowing you'll settle out of court.

OP you signed a lease agreeing to vacate in specified circumstances. As long as Shelter agree they apply just get out and rent what you can rather than dragging your landlord and your family through this stress just because you can.

Thank you everyone for your advice.

I think we need to see how this rental viewing goes today - if they accept us then fine, if they don't that's when we need to really think about what we can do. I don't want to stay beyond April 23rd because I don't want to deal with court processes etc, but if we can't find somewhere else then what are we meant to do? We would rent a 2 bed and sleep in the living room but there are very few of those available too and they get snapped up immediately as there's so many of us in the same position. We can't go any smaller as the DC are too old to share.

DH has already filled in the council's forms. Our end goal is definitely not a council house, and surely we wouldn't be eligible for one considering our savings?

@Yoperreosolo We haven't spoken to Shelter yet but that is our next step, but from what I've read they can only help if we don't move out before we should.

@sellingrocks I was working up until I had to be a full time carer for DM. When she died my own health took a turn, but I'm getting better. The plan was always for me to work with DH as part of his company involves my area of expertise, but they haven't got that far yet (it'll be customer based but they're still setting up). That way I can be fairly flexible wrt the DC. Right now, me getting any sort of job isn't going to make a blind bit of difference to our situation.

@curious79 One letting agent told us we can't do that anymore, another said we could! I will definitely ask this evening, or at any other property we view. We are happy to do this.

@Ca2026 DH spoke to another adivsor today who said he might be able to help in a few months when the company starts making a profit. I've been looking into specialist mortgage brokers today, have sent a couple to DH to take a look at. I will also have a look at the FB page you mentioned.

Most landlords are not that stupid, they know a section 21 doesnt remove the tenant. Your statement would be an editorilised and dishonest one potentially, and get the landlord into trouble. They could state the facts clearly, but refused to move out is wrong they stayed only during a legal tenancy - also amusingly to refuse to move out, the landlord would have to have tried to remove them which is a criminal offence their reference is suggesting they did. The tenant should just state clearly during their application that they were a model tenant, paid all rent on time, kept the property well, was served a no fault notice, and due to looking for other property stayed until the tenancy was ended.

Most landlords will not care about that, or the confirmation of it later. This is particularly true considering section 21 won't exist for any landlord anyone is now going to find.

The personal or consequential costs for doing the correct legal process are the landlords responsibility. There are some limited costs they can request. But they are set court costs. And they cant jump to suing you for them, it would generally be taken out of the deposit, and the costs are relatively small it is unlikely most peoples deposit alone won't be a lot bigger. And then you would be asked for any remaining amount, and you can pay in any reasonable way like any debt. They can claim the first application fee, and a small nominal set amount if they had legal help costs.

Of course they can sue you if you refuse to pay, but you can't just be sued randomly for money as a first action like you made it sound. And no, they cannot sue you because for costs related to selling or anything like that.

A little update.

We went to see the house - it wasn't in great condition (some damp in the bedrooms, kitchen cupboards falling off, carpet coming away on the stairs). Apparently some of that will be fixed before anyone else moves in. The letting agent said she had 6 more viewings tonight so I doubt we'll be considered for it anyway but the state of it might end up putting people off. It's sort of put us off, despite the circumstances. We can live with most things but we already suffer with damp despite doing everything we can to stop it happening.

Anyway, I've got another viewing tomorrow at a very similar property (same price, roughly the same size), and that looks like it's in much better condition. I think I'll have to view that one and then make a decision. If neither of them work for us then I don't know what we'll do - we don't want to cause problems for anybody, we just need a house that's a reasonable distance from the schools.

DH is now away for 3 days so I'm mostly doing it by myself. He does have a call with a specialist mortgage broker on Friday, one that deals with the self employed and "unusual circumstances". Maybe that might lead somewhere, perhaps not straight away but in a few months to a year. He had to check his credit rating before they'd engage with him and it was excellent, so that's a good start at least!

I'm just constantly aware of the time ticking away in the background. Whether we leave at the end of April or not, we need to find something ASAP.

And thank you @nevernotmaybe for your posts. I've seen a lot of conflicting info about whether staying after the S21 date will reflect badly on us or not, and I found what you've written to be very helpful.

Went to see the second house yesterday.

It was pretty much the same as the first house, but in much much better condition. It was small but it would work for us. The location was perfect, it's quite literally around the corner from where we are now.

We've put in the application (had to be done before 9am so I sent it off last night) and now it's just a waiting game. The letting agent said there was quite a lot of interest so it's fairly unlikely, but I'm crossing my fingers anyway. If it doesn't work out then we'll have to either go back to the first house, or look further afield. I'm pinning my hopes on this one for now, but trying to be realistic about it, too.

Keeping everything crossed for you 🤞

@Ca2026 Thank you 🫶

The letting agent called me yesterday and said the landlady had a few questions for us - mostly about the finances but also about what we liked to do and our interests! Never had that before, but I guess it was her trying to find out if we're likely to trash the place.

Then this morning the agent emailed me with yet another question about DH's work, and said she'd get back to us ASAP. Still waiting! I was feeling hopeful yesterday (even planned out in my head where all our furniture would go) but now I'm less so. DH's income was always going to be an issue, even though we have the money in the bank to pay the rent for at least six months. They won't take it in advance, we asked.

So still in limbo, really. If this house is a no then it means trying further away from the DC's schools, but if that's all we can do then of course we will. It'd be a shame as we've lived in this part of town for so long and all love it here, and especially as we all really like this house (including DH who had to make do with my crappy video as we walked around!).

@CoodleMoodle Keep the faith. They won’t waste time asking questions unless you are a contender.
I don’t think they are allowed to take 6 months up front anymore (well from 1st May anyway) as part of the new rules.

I don't think that's allowed anymore.

Good luck renting is a nightmare isn’t it

The government is making this illegal.

Kind of, mostly. The landlord would be taking a chance because they can't demand it after in any way, but you can voluntarily pay your rent upfront once you are a tenant by any amount you freely choose. And if the fact you plan on doing this comes up naturally in conversation before you have secure the property that isn't illegal.

And if a landlord believed that prospective tenant, it would be impossible to take action against the landlord choosing that tenant for that reason even if you could prove it, which you couldn't unless they just admitted it.

I don't understand if why your husband is earning those figures,you don't buy your own home?

The landlord wouldn’t believe it. Why should he when there are numerous tenants available with employed income and good references.

One of the main reasons it was banned was to stop people well off buying their way to a property, some might have had no references or less income sure, but most will have had good references and employment but flexed their wealth to secure the property over others.

This could potentially still happen, even though it will be a lot less likely, and is illegal in the form it was happening before

As s former landlord who was bitten by a tenant with a forged reference, who stopped paying rent and then played the system, forcing me to go to court - incredible stressful - I would only accept people who had a relatively secure job and both tenants working. Even then would absolutely not take a family with only one parent in a salaried job -precisely because of the sort of advice tenants are being given on these threads re ignoring the section 21.

The arent ignoring it. You just proved you were a dodgy landlord nothing more.

They aren’t ignoring it but you just confirmed your a shit landlord. Feel sorry for the tenant who ends up with you.

You can offer to buy a rent guarantee insurance so the LL absolutely knows they will get their rent every month.