SIL sneakily causing trouble

[Shootinghoops]

My SIL seems to put on a front, but in the background is really causing divides. I do struggle a bit with people who seem fake, but want to try with her and don’t want to cause trouble between her and my brother. I’ve always been pleasant to her, try to find redeeming things about her etc. It’s hard as if I tell my brother things going on in my life, I understand he might tell her, but this is then used as a weapon. There’s something really off about her that’s become more apparent over time. It’s all done in a subtle way. I don’t want to have to put a wall up between me and my brother. I have tried grey rocking but it’s hard sometimes. Tips?

I guess it’s just about being civil at family get-togethers while keeping her at arm’s length.

Sadly you need to assume everything and anything you say to your brother will get passed on to her. Be wary what you share, as sad as that is it is the only option.

Alternatively, out-weird her until she realises she has met her match.

Sorry OP but it's not clear what SIL is doing that's so bad - how is she causing divides and using your personal information as a weapon?

Some of it is silly e.g. kids are allowed sweets at her parent’s house, but not my parent’s. Some of it takes me by surprise e.g. I’ve had long covid for a while and more and more of my life is getting erased. I want to focus on what I can still do, not what I can’t, although there is a grieving process. She’s never once mentioned an activity that she thought would be good for my kids, until I told my brother I couldn’t do it anymore.

One year after asking the kids what they wanted for Christmas and checking with her she wasn’t getting it, she told them after they opened it that they’d have to get rid of recently bought toys to make space for my present (wasn’t bulky toy I’d bought and they have a large house). She’s never really asked me about work until she found out I’ve had to stop, but keeps “forgetting”. She made her kids miss out on swimming because they’ll just be too tired now (they were leaving my parent’s house less than three minutes after they had planned). Another day her kids were playing hide and seek. Her parents (nice, but didn’t quite get it) would say straight away “I can see your feet beneath the curtains” etc every time they hid, whereas we were pretending to look for them. “They’re overstimulated now!”

We are quite different, so for example, when I first met her I was excited as I was going travelling, she was excited at a set of mugs she’d just bought - both understandable things in their own way, but different. She stopped work very young, until I got ill, I always worked. Her house is like a showhome, mine isn’t. She plans things weeks in advance and days to the second, I’d find that stifling. We are just different, but doesn’t mean we can’t be civil (even if we both probably inwardly eyeroll at times) without being mean or disrespectful. The more serious stuff is very outing.

None of what you’re written seems bad. Why does it matter where her children are allowed sweets, that doesn’t affect you. Why is that (and other stuff) her fault and not your brothers). Why would she mention the activity that’s good for your kids?

You sound like very different people but what you’ve written doesn’t seem bad at all.

Honestly she sounds like she might have always felt quite inferior and insecure around you, and since your health issues has been enjoying a sense of "the tables being turned" as she seems to seek out opportunities to put you in your place/belittle you.

It's totally shit behaviour on her part but probably not likely to change - but can you handle it by belittling her straight back? "Gosh, Jenny, you'd think you had long covid not me, your memory is so bad! Have you thought about getting it checked out? It's really not normal to forget this much." "Ah, don't tease the poor kids, when I checked the present with you you said it would be great!" "Sounds like a lovely activity! Like I said to Brad, I can't do it any more but brilliant if you guys can take them, it's super kind of you to offer."

Just blithely refuse to let her put you down.

It's a bit bitchy, sure. But sometimes there's no other way of getting through to bitchy people. By blithely refusing to confront her about it but not ignoring her either you'll put her on the back foot - she'll have to be the bad guy/look foolish.

None of that sounds like much to be honest, it just sounds like you're very different people. It also sounds a bit like you're taking offence at very minor things like kids having sweets or playing hide & seek! You don't have to be close friends with her, just be pleasant enough when you see her.

None of that is divide creating. Its just different styles. Your posts make little sense so its hard to understand but it seems to me yiu thubk she should make more effort with you? Even while you make if clear you think her life and her decisions are inferior. There's notable snideness in how you talk about her not working, her home, the thinfs she likes.

I don’t know why she’d feel inferior? I don’t criticise her life choices. If anything, she can be quite sneery and treats me like she’s Mrs Bucket and I’m the neighbour. She is very much about appearances. I don’t get riled up about snide comments from her on that, but do when it’s big upsetting life changes - illness, bereavement, miscarriages etc. Those accidental comments seem more deliberate especially as she seems very controlled in what she says.

If she says kids are limited to two pringles, I respect that - I don’t say anything when that rule doesn’t apply to her family at the same events. I don’t say anything if kids aren’t overstimulated playing with her side of family, but are if playing more with our side - it took a while to notice the pattern anyway - her family are lovely and I don’t want to compete with them like that as it feels really uncomfortable to me. I’ve sometimes drawn back and seen my parents do same if kids are enjoying our company more so that things don’t kick off or she doesn’t send them into another room to watch tv or something. It’s a bit like the person who never gets their round in - it takes a while to notice and then you can’t not notice.

Babysitting when awake - her family, babysitting when asleep is mine. We’ve tried to offer/ask for dates in advance, but it always falls through - brother is blind to it.

I’ve never questioned her choices about not working etc - people do what’s right for them and their families. She works very hard on her home and it looks amazing. I’m a bit on eggshells in case me or the kids will drop something on the floor, but that’s my issue not hers. She will go into the toilet with a mop on most visits as “just wants to check it’s ok as lots of people here today” - again, took a while to realise it was always only after me or kids used it - what am I meant to say to that, we are not exactly weeing on the floor, making a mess or turning up filthy. I do get paranoid that she might tell my brother / her side of the family we are doing those things, but that she’s handling it nicely. Why only after we’ve been in with a big announcement?

“I don’t criticise her life choices.“

You’ve started a whole thread criticising loads about her!

It sounds like you’ve made up your mind about her based on a few tiny things. I would love to hear her side of the story, if there even is one and you’re not making a massive mountain out of a molehill.

It sounds like you really need to separate out issues: how she treats you as a person, how she treats your families differently, how she treats her own kids. Right now you're wrapping them into one which is conflating issues - after your most recent post I think I've changed my opinion a bit.

And stop giving your bother a free pass. He's an adult with agency. You don't like that she asks her family to babysit, not yours. Well, your brother is also not asking you, or prioritising you. Not being a woman doesn't give him a free pass on being the main conduit for his family.

Overall - just spend less time with her. You don't like her, she doesn't like you. Just detach.

You sound quite mad, OP, and as though you're actively seeking out material to be offended about. What difference does it make to you whether she didn't take her children swimming because they were late leaving your parents' house? Or which houses sweets are allowed in? Or whether your family or her parents play hide and seek differently? What does your 'big announcement' have to do with her mopping her bathroom floor?

Her parents said they could see the kids’s feet during hide and seek? What on earth are you on about?

I think the 'logic' here (although the OP is at times totally incoherent) is that her SIL's parents played hide and seek in a calm, no fun way, just saying 'I can see your feet sticking out' when they could, whereas the 'fun' OP and her family ran around pretending they couldn't find the children to prolong the game, and her SIL said that the children were overstimulated and called time on it.

But how that can be turned into her SIL 'sneakily causing trouble' in conjunction with other micro-'aggressions' like how many Pringles the children are allowed in different houses, mopping the bathroom after the OP came over with a 'big announcement' and forgetting the OP no longer works for a living, is quite another question.

OP, are you someone who just isn't around other people very much?

You seem to have set this insane rivalry up as SIL's Family vs Your Family as though it's some kind of battle between good and evil out of myth, when surely it's just different people doing things differently.

Lots of your posts read like those of a child who's just gone on their first sleepover and is fascinated, and possibly a bit appalled, that other families have different rules about TV and lights out and eat different stuff for breakfast.

It sounds like you have a very small life and too much time on yours hands so are over thinking EVERYTHING.

I've heard of micro aggression but this is homeopathic level. Who gives a monkeys about any of this? Get on with your own life, you don't need to be friends with her.

SIL makes a big announcement about mopping the floor, but only after certain people have used the toilet!

I don’t want rivalry - if kids are enjoying themselves with whoever, I’m glad they’re enjoying themselves. The our side/their side of family is only being mentioned here because it’s so odd to me, including indirectly punishing kids.

I don’t invite in-laws over and say to them kids are allowed two pringles today, but smile and tell them to say thank you if my family give them sweets and crisps.

She manages the diary and no matter how far ask in advance to have time with the children, there’s either no time available, or it’s cancelled. As strong as she is on routine, she’s put kids to bed as early as 530 to be “helpful”, but only if our side are babysitting.

If questions were ‘are you missing work / this activity might be a good fit for you seeing as you can’t do your usual / sorry you’ve had a miscarriage’, it’s different to how’s work going / I bought half the shop for my friend at a baby sale - want to see / I’ve seen this activity (that you’re missing) you should try it, your kids would love it etc.

You just sound as if you don’t like her and are finding little things to pick on.

She manages the diary and no matter how far ask in advance to have time with the children, there’s either no time available, or it’s cancelled

Take the hint. Meeting up seems stressful for both of you and if your brother wanted to see you he wouldn’t hide behind her managing the diary, he’d suggest getting together. Hopefully you've got other people to socialise with whose company you enjoy more.

I was talking about seeing the kids. That ship has sailed for me now, but would be nice for the kids and my parents. We shared a house at one point, and although she’s always been guarded, she wasn’t spiteful. The sneeriness amped up once engaged, but I could tolerate that. After kids came along, something in her spiralled.

I do have lots of lovely people in my life and am learning to accept a much smaller social life. However, family is really, really important to me and I don’t want to not be able to tell my brother things and want him to still have a relationship with my kids. I need a form of words that means I can tell him things, that won’t be used against me by her - without making him feel like he’s caught up in the middle, cause drama, big rifts etc - It’s very real and I’m not imagining it. I’m not going to mention the comment after bereavement comment on here, said when brother was out of the room (pattern here too) which is the only time I’ve ever snapped back at her. It may be I just need to make a choice whether to keep him at arms length too or accept the cruel comments, neither of which seem great. I’m hoping there’s a form of words that can remove that choice.

So talk to your brother just as you've always done, if that's the priority here? There is no 'form of words' that will mean you can talk unreservedly to your brother in the knowledge that he will never pass on any of what you say to his wife, which is an ordinary thing to do between spouses, unless someone is specifically asked to keep sensitive information to themselves. I also don't see what 'information' she's weaponising, or the spite you mention.

Accept that she doesn't like you and you don't like her, and she prefers to way her family does things. None of that is wildly unusual, surely? And just stop counting up what time the children go to bed if your family are babysitting, or who's just been in the loo when she mops it? It's all insanely petty, and can't be doing your MH any favours. You're clearly having a hard time with long Covid, but that's not her fault.

It’s an ordinary thing to do between spouses, yes. It’s not normal to try to cause friction. Life has ups and downs. Positive things I share with my brother aren’t brought up by her (which I’m ok with), but inappropriate comments are always there about the downs. I suppose I either pay that tax or don’t share things with my brother - either way it damages the relationship.

It’s more that you’ve given no instances of your SIL weaponising sensitive information you’ve disclosed to your brother.

I understand what you are saying OP. I like your analogy to a person who never pays their round. The truth is she is difficult with you and your family and effective at hiding it. That will not change. You can’t change her, only how you respond. Personally I’d try to see her as little as possible. Take any opportunity to see your brother without her and keep trying to see her children without her but accept she will always find a way not to. Family is important to you but unfortunately your brother has married someone you do not gel with. That’s tough but his loyalty is to her. You can’t change it. Accept it and
try to let it impact your life as little as possible.
My only red line would be outright rudeness to you or your children. If that happens, call her on it - if possible in your brother’s presence.

I had friends who got rid of toys if their kids got other toys (passed them on to charities) they were only allowed a certain number. I thought it was pretty mean but their house their rules. Sweets always a bugbear, I allowed them in moderation, but we didn't necessarily have any in the house, the kids that weren't allowed would stuff themselves given half a chance. Too late for swimming, perhaps she had decided not to go and it was a good excuse. Really nothing I could get excited about but if you have left out the bad things no one can judge.