Battles over second foreign language

[NoNoNoToEspanol]

Sorry, just a rant. DS in Year 7 needs to pick a second foreign language to start studying next year by Friday and the war between him and DH over it is driving me up the wall. (He's already studying German and is enjoying it.)

He gets to choose from Spanish, French, Italian, Russian, Chinese or Japanese and has no preference except he's against Spanish (for reasons he can't or won't explain).

Of course, DH is dead set that he should learn Spanish, as he thinks it's the most useful option. (I'm from the states, so sometimes we visit there, and it's spoken quite a bit, though not by anyone in my family.)

I feel like it doesn't matter. DH took French in school and can't speak it anymore. I took Spanish and can't speak it anymore either, so "usefulness" seems potentially irrelevant, since none of the options are ones we know DS will actually use.

I know the advice is to choose a language you love, or at least have some interest in learning, but other than not wanting Spanish, DS has shown no preference.

I can't decide which misery I'm looking forward to less... DS moaning over the next several years if DH gets his way or DH moaning if he doesn't.

My youngest has chosen Japanese. We are Irish, we live in Ireland, we have no friends that are Japanese but it is HIS school career and HIS choice and your dh is being an absolute arsehole about it all. I did Spanish and speak not one word of it now - well I could order wine and food but thats it. Your DH needs to find another battle I think.

If your DS is the one that has to study it - he should pick the one he wants to do.

Surely Spanish will only be useful if your son travels to South/Central America as well as Spain.

@Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain It really depends if you think GCSE language is necessary for travel. It’s about literature, culture and language. There’s no requirement to use GCSE MFLs anywhere. You could say the same for Chinese and Japanese and Russian has its travel limitations right now. All these languages are “useful” in terms of developing the brain, understanding different cultures and their art and literature and, best of all, not being a standard inward looking Brit.

It is your son's choice. What an amazing choice, though.
I'd choose Mandarin, personally. Good opportunity.

I have MFL envy! Our school doesn’t offer any choice - when they join year 7, they get allocated either French or Spanish which is determined by which set they’re in for English - and then they can only do that one and no other for GCSE. Top sets learn French, lower sets learn Spanish which seems to fit with what a PP has said about Spanish being easier at a basic level.

If I was your DS and this is what my Dad insisted on, i would want to do anything but Spanish too. In fact I'd rather lie to Dh and secretly do Spanish than let him think he influenced it. DS is standing up to an over bearing parent, that isn't easy and shows strength of character. You should be proud.

Of the languages the OP has listed, it's the most widely spoken worldwide. Most of central and south America speaks it and it is the de facto second language in the US.

I speak Spanish, French and a bit of German and Greek.

Motivation counts for such a lot in language learning, so I agree that forcing the boy to pick Spanish isn't a good idea.

If he continues to enjoy German, and that could change as it's early days, and also makes progress in a second foreign language, the acquisition of another, maybe Spanish, later will be easier.

As a now retired MFL teacher I'm amazed at the number of languages the school offers. Most seem to be cutting MFL provision.

Yeah I guess that true. I still think it was harder to learn than french. But that might just be me!

I disagree it's easy to learn/easier than other languages. It all depends on your aptitude to learn another language. A lot of people will have learned some French before learning any other language. If the second language is also a Romance language then there are lots of similarities that can be helpful. I remember hearing on a R4 documentary that immersion is the best way to learn a language and that it takes 5 years to build a good vocabulary in a foreign language.

he's against Spanish (for reasons he can't or won't explain)

He may have been influenced by school.

Spanish is the most popular so they try to encourage students to pick another. They say don't choose Spanish just because you go holiday to Spain, or it's widely spoken in the world, choose the language you are most interested in learning more about.

On that basis, picking a language with a completely different alphabet like Russian, Chinese or Japanese would probably be the most interesting as it's different to German, French and Spanish.

Also, they won't expect to achieve the same level of fluency in those languages because they have to learn the characters from scratch.

My DD did Chinese and found it fascinating. It's also pretty cool to be able to speak and write a bit of Chinese.

Just out of interest, why doesn't his dad learn Spanish himself if he's so keen on it?

It's unusual to find Spanish harder than French! I teach both of them and would say Spanish is objectively easier, simply because of the pronunciation. People who have a good ear might not find it that much easier. There's not much difference in difficulty from a grammar pov.

I didn't find Spanish really difficult per se. But I learned French from 11-16 and then Spanish in an evening class once a week for a couple years in my late 20s.

My brain had probably rotted during the interim! I really love languages.

I find it really hard sadly because of my ADHD to concentrate unless someone who only speaks that language constantly speaks to me!

Let him choose, it really doesn’t matter in the scheme of things. My parents forced me into studying subjects they thought were ‘acceptable’ but which I was not interest in, it didn’t end well.

Honestly your dh needs to stop and pause and think about his son and his relationship with him. He really really needs to let his son choose. Forcing him into something so unimportant that he really doesn’t want smacks of being far too controlling to me. My dh insisted that dd1 (now nearly 21) took Spanish as a second maybe for gcse. She hated hated hated it. It was a real issue in her life and made her miserable. Sh and dh have a good relationship now but it soured it for a while. And for what? And dd1 says she understands all of our decisions during her childhood on reflection but not this one. It was a mistake. I just don’t get why your dh would risk alienating and making your ds so miserable for no good reason. I wish I had intervened at the time.

Just adding I don’t think it’s about the language. It’s about respect and control. Your dh is not going to be doing the studying.

@Htcunya As a now retired MFL teacher I'm amazed at the number of languages the school offers. Most seem to be cutting MFL provision.

The school claims that languages are one of its specialties, so I think that's why there are so many. We chose it in spite of the languages, because DH and I are absolute rubbish at them, and worried that DS would be, too, but in every other way, it was by far the best fit for DS. Also, one of the other parents with a kid already there pointed out that the school is good at teaching languages, and that can make a real difference, compared to if the schools we went to weren't good at it. Either that's true, or DS is better at learning them than we were, because he's doing fine.

@WallaceinAnderland Just out of interest, why doesn't his dad learn Spanish himself if he's so keen on it? Yes, exactly. But it's also true that DH's brain (and mine, too) probably just can't anymore. DS keeps trying to teach me bits of German and it goes in one brain cell and out the other.

Anyway, the update is that I encouraged DS to ask his German teacher... just tell her that's he's enjoying German and see if she has any recommendation which other language he might enjoy. She's also the head of the MFL department, so I thought she might have even more of a clue than the other teachers.

She recommended Russian.

So, he chose Russian.

DH has mostly been ok with it toward DS, but I've had to listen to a few grumble sessions, and am hoping for the best.

Yes, he is always this controlling, but that's probably a different thread.

Well done OP. Getting your DS to ask for advice from his teacher was an excellent move!

They’re both global languages, with Spanish being more widely spoken worldwide.

Russian can be more valuable, depending on his career plans.

Glad he’s gone for his own preference.

If he learns Russian, he will be able to pick up other Slav languages easily, and understand how the grammar works, as with the exception of Bulgarian, they are all pretty similar.

Your DH can learn Spanish. Duolingo, evening classes, however he likes. Everyone’s happy!

Russian sounds like fun. Widely spoken in Baltic states. It’s a great one for civil service too should he take it further.

Russian is a great choice. I studied French, German and Russian at school, then Russian degree. Lived in Moscow for a bit and now work in the Civil Service (in a totally non Russia related job but thats because my interest got swayed by something else!). Russian has a case system that will be familiar to him through his German, so it may actually make it easier to start with and the alphabet is fine once you get to grips with it. It becomes second nature in no time!