Two Questions on Dubai

[Peanutbutteryday]

Sorry if this has been done to death I’ve had a busy day and not been on mumsnet. Also sorry for just focusing on Dubai in my post. It goes without saying that I feel for everyone involved in all countries including Iran

1. I feel like the UK media is light on Dubai coverage given the number of British nationals there. Why? Is the Dubai media not releasing info? or am I just missing seeing coverage

2. I know we don’t have a crystal ball but do we think there could be a mass exodus of Brit’s living there? Or a huge change in the number of people wanting to move there?

I’ve never suggested it was ‘criminals and influencers’. When I lived there, friends were drafting UAE bankruptcy law and teaching at universities and schools. The serious people left again. The people who couldn’t hack it elsewhere stayed on.

Most lawyers and finance people I know who go to Dubai go for money reasons and the lifestyle. However, I know a lawyer who could’ve moved there but decided not to (he’d holidayed in Dubai).

But the ‘lifestyle’ is awful, unless you’re the kind of person who thinks cheap domestic labour and year-round sun makes up for all other drawbacks.

Based on what I see on social media there’s a number of British people in their 20s who move to try their hand at property sales (surely can’t be that lucrative given the number of people doing this - I think it’s mainly commission only?) who perhaps rent rooms or flats, and then a number of British families who perhaps have more stable affluent jobs and live in wider communities with larger houses and other settled families.
Appreciate this is my perception from the outside 😂

Dubai isn't under a sustained attack. It's not a military location, and there are many many places being hit. Dubai isn't a strategically important place for this war, so it won't get the lions share of the news coverage, no.

Yes, mass exodus inbound.

Am also seeing a very significant shift in attitude across social media platforms of people at scale finally addressing that Dubai is built on mirrors, with slavery and oppression being directly used to enable the lifestyles of others. Yes, that happens the world over, but it's a prime example of the rich choosing what they want to see.

Dubai isn't a real city, it's a business.

Yes, I think some people will leave. Some people for financial reasons probably can’t or won’t. Some people will love the extra content they can create from all this. That said, I have 2 friends who live there, as diplomats, who likely don’t have a choice but to stay. They’re there to support foreign nationals and they stay as long as diplomatic relations remain open.

The information coming out is filtered. The government is very quick to crack down on anything that paints Dubai in a bad light. My friends have had to be very measured in what they say online. I suspect journalists who are there are having to do the same. This is, in part, why media representations of Dubai are so rosy. You couldn’t be an influencer there complaining about how shit and exploitative it all is. You’d be locked up or deported.

It’s ridiculous to suggest the only people who live there are “not serious people” and entirely ill-informed about the world. Maybe that’s what happened within your group but I know many very sensible people who live there and have built careers and practices out there. If your clients and contacts are based there it can make sense to stay, especially in professional services firms. I know people who’ve returned and people who’ve built great lives out there. You just cannot sneer and generalise about so many people based on your own limited experience.

There absolutely are fines for posting on line!

My friend’s husband worked out there in finance for years. Had a good career. But the only job she could get was in a nursery (she’d been predicted to go to university before they got married). They were Muslims. She personally ended up hating it there and now is back in UK with husband.

I absolutely can sneer. It remains what it's always been, a place where people who've failed elsewhere wash up professionally. I mean, the long stayers. A lot of young teachers, for instance, rock up for a year or two after qualifying, but seldom stay longer, creating the major ongoing problem for the schools, where teacher turnover is rapid, and has a deleterious effect on education.

I tend to agree with this @Triskels . I lived out there and met quite a few people who had been promoted to an extent they couldn't have dreamt of in the UK - not necessarily a bad thing in itself, but to try and portray Dubai as a high powered business hub is misleading. It's a professional backwater for most Europeans. There was an old acronym FILTH - failed in London try Hong Kong that could easily be adapted these days to FILD!

1. I feel like the UK media is light on Dubai coverage given the number of British nationals there. Why? Is the Dubai media not releasing info? or am I just missing seeing coverage

@MissAdvantage There are tight laws in UAE. I suppose to protect the ‘image’.

‘Posting online
It is illegal to post material, including videos and photographs, online that is critical of the UAE government, companies or individuals, or which relates to incidents in the UAE. This includes material which appears to abuse, ridicule or criticise the country or its authorities. Material that is culturally insensitive may also be considered illegal’

‘Media activity
You must apply for the appropriate permissions to carry out media activity, including the production, transmission or distribution of printed, digital, audio, video or visual information. Failure to do so could result in imprisonment and a substantial fine.
Information about media activity and how to obtain the necessary permits can be accessed by registering on the National Media Council website.’

These rules, amongst a host of others are taken from government documentation.

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/united-arab-emirates/safety-and-security

BBC NEWS has just said about 2 million people have had their flights cancelled or disrupted by this crisis.

But this is such a dated Eurocentric view of the world. It sounds like something from the 90s. I suspect times have moved on. The people I know who’ve built careers out there bear no resemblance to this description. For years very good people did a stint and came home because it was expected that’s what they’d want to do, with families etc. It’s not the case any more. People build a practice out there and they stay because the region is booming and it makes sense to stay once you have built the business.

I do wonder if there is a sudden exodus, where the UK will put them all?

I am sure there will be plenty of greedy hotel owners queuing up

I don’t know anything about teaching except to say young teachers have always moved around in my experience!
As I said in my other post the friends and colleagues I’ve known out there have done extremely well in the region and have made it their home long term.
I do remember when people took the view you are espousing and it was around 15 years ago; the landscape has changed so radically since then.

1. For sure

No doubt there will be pushback about the scale of the problem from the Dubai authorities, simply because it severely tarnishes that glossy luxury safe haven image they worked so hard to create considering their location.

The value of tourism and standing as a Global travel hub cannot be overstated, the same for Qatar, Abu Dhabi. A neighbouring regime indiscriminately lashing out is catastrophic for business, having it play out real time for the world to see is a PR nightmare.

Controlling the narrative as and when they can will be a priority.

No doubt there will be pushback about the scale of the problem from the Dubai authorities, simply because it severely tarnishes that glossy luxury safe haven image they worked so hard to create considering their location.

Maybe they will have to start taxing workers to provide defence. Novel idea I know. Would never catch on in the UK.

You already have to pay for NHS treatment if you are out of the country for more than 5 years. I was, although in a country with a higher tax rate than the UK so definitely not a tax exile. But it seemed reasonable given I'd not been living there.

You raise an interesting point.

Those opposed to taxpayer money being used to repatriate from Dubai…would you feel the same for someone who emigrated to a country with higher taxes than the UK and, further, if it were a highbrow Amnesty-friendly lentil-weaving country?

If so, any semblance of a decent argument you had kinda falls away…

I think Dubai really wants property and real estate to be an extra tier to its economy so it's not just reliant on oil. There has been a huge PR push to that extent. So in the short term I think that all the property sales types are being encouraged by the government. And then they try to encourage more people to move out there in turn. It feels like an MLM. And I guess they are worried about the bubble bursting (even if most permanent residents stay if the shine goes of their property boom they have wasted a lot of effort)

This is why I don't like the idea that countries should make themselves as attractive as possible to big money/incentivice billionaires with tax breaks. Those people can help the economy but the problem is that sort of international money is very mobile. People moving somewhere for the tax breaks can leave just as easily because there's nothing tying them down. So I don't feel shardenfroid (how the hell do you spell that) for Dubai. But I do hope the people who banged on about Britain needs to be more like Dubai/Qatar/Singapore and how tax breaks for the rich are the future give their heads a wobble. They won't though.

I don't..I also think that if it were to come to it we should repatriate citizens from Dubai as well.
However, I reserve the right to make snarky comments to anyone who previously boasted about leaving the UK because they didn't want their taxes funding other people's lifestyles. And to bring this up (even if repatriation isn't needed in the end) the next time someone starts up.

Dubai has minimal oil, though. It’s only about 2-3% of its GDP. Hence the big push in tourism. Abu Dhabi has virtually all the UAE’s oil.