"On the deeds"

[LimpysGotCancer]

Just asking because I've seen two threads about this today, and I also sometimes hear it discussed in real life. What is being "on the deeds"?

I thought the ownership status of the house was registered with the land registry via your conveyancing solicitor (when they ask you about joint tenants, tenants in common etc). And also isn't it just an asset of the marriage, and anyway isn't percentage of ownership sometimes challenged and determined based on who contributed what to bills/mortgage/renovations etc?

Am I wrong and actually there's a piece of parchment somewhere that unchangingly grants ownership to potentially one person forever? Such that your husband dies and suddenly a distant relative inherits your house?

Or is it just one of those outdated/irrelevant things that some older people say, like rates, road tax, and paying your stamp?

Following with interest because your take on it was more or less mine. I thought it was very rare now to have actual paper deeds unless they existed for a very old property. I thought the holding of the (virtual) deeds remained with a mortgage company whilst being paid off. No idea what happens once it's paid- haven't got there yet! And likewise with Land Registry, names are put on the website but that doesn't confirm ownership. I'm sure that's what I understood when buying a house.
Interested to see the answers!

Since about 1993 property transactions (so when you buy or sell or remortgage) are registered at the Land Registry showing who and how you own the property. If you haven’t moved or remortgaged since the 90s then your property may not be registered.

You will then need a solicitor to do a first registration to prove your title to the property using the original deeds to prove the chain of ownership. Then once this is done your ownership is then registered with land registry and you don’t need the old deeds anymore.

My understanding is that Property ownership is registered with the Land registry: the mortgage company will be registered as having an interest in the property. Property owners are joint tenants, tenants in common etc.
In the olden days the mortgage company held the paper deeds until the mortgage was paid off.
I've had paper copies of deeds in the past, before the system went digital.

We have actual paper deeds- we bought our house outright just before the registering with the Land Registry came in in the 1980s and haven't moved. It's lovely being able to look through them and see the history of our home.
As a very young child I lived in a very old place, early 1700s as far as we knew. When my parents sold it (long before Land Registry) the solicitor handed back some of the very, very old documents to them saying they weren't needed for the transfer. I still have them... great big documents on parchment with big wax seals and using the "long s".

Yep people still use the term, but it is very rare for actual paper deeds nowadays. I had them on a house bought in 1990 and it was also registered with the Land Registry.

If you bought a house from someone who had owned since before 1990 then there is a chance that they have paper deeds, as it was not compulsory to register with the Land Registry until then.

When a mortgage is paid off nowadays the bank’s charge (legal interest registered with the Land Registry) is removed but you don’t get sent paper deeds.

So nowadays “being on the deeds” is largely synonymous with “being on the land registry register”.

I believe its just an outdated term that's in common usage. I'm old so had a few houses over the years, did used to have actual paper deeds that the mortgage company held until paid off. I actually remember my dad having paid his off and them being returned to him and wrapping them in foil (his way of keeping them safe in case of a fire🤣). My mortgage is paid off but i don't have paper deeds for this house, it's all online at the land registry. I did have a solicitor's letter confirming that this had been done but suspect if that happened now it would be just an email.

My parents left £1 on their mortgage so the property deeds would remain safely at the bank.
They were advised it was best to do this and not have them in the house incase of a fire or anything.

We have the paper deeds to our house but they don’t have any legal status, as you correctly say that is all done through the land registry.
The previous owners kept a history of the property, including the paper deeds which they passed on to us when we bought it.
I do think “on the deeds” is a phrase that has passed into common usage, a bit like saying something has been “rubber stamped” even though those aren’t really a thing any more either

My parents did this. When my Dad passed away, the bank stated my Dad had an account "in arrears" (by £1) and had no idea what it was for... deeds are sadly outdated now

If your house is not registered on Land Registry, you should seriously look into rectifying this. It can/will take years to get the paperwork processed, so it's advisable to do it now before you need to.
Also, once the property is on the Land Registry, the land is officially registered as yours. Af the moment, you run the risk of a neighbour laying claim to a corner without your knowledge as, without Land Registry documentation, it will look like an unclaimed block of land.

I think people are just using deeds and title interchangeably.

But you might find your logic about marital asset and having contributed to renovations etc falls down really quickly if the person who actually owns the house dies and leaves it to the cats home in their Will - you’d be finding yourself turfed out in short order, or a very expensive legal battle on your hands at the least.

Lots of couples aren’t married… then it can be a problem. Amongst many others.

@WelcometomyUnderworld has the sum of it. Sole owner in the title deeds has the right to leave their property to whomever they wish to in their will. Can the will be contested? Yes. But are there any guarantees the person contesting the will would win? No. And would the legal costs to contest the will be high? Absolutely.
Short of it is, whether you own as joint tenants or tenants in common, make sure you are both on the title deeds. This is even more important for unmarried couples where one moves into a home the other owns. He or she could live there for years and even have children with that person, but as they are unmarried they have no legal right to any portion of the property should the relationship break down except by registering a beneficial interest if they are able to prove a financial contribution. But even then the starting point is not half and it could only be for the amount they contributed or a % of the value it added to the property (I.e significantly less than if they were married and on the title deeds).

Thank you all. I knew there'd be a wealth of knowledgeable answers if I asked on here.

I do think “on the deeds” is a phrase that has passed into common usage, a bit like saying something has been “rubber stamped” even though those aren’t really a thing any more either

Great point.
Reminds me of how I still "tape" TV programmes (i.e. click series link). Wonder if my kids will therefore still be using that phrase in 50 years to describe whatever the equivalent is then.

Doesn’t being married override there being just one person on the deeds? As in, the house is automatically jointly owned due to the marriage?

Definitely not. Upon divorce the house may be classed as a marital asset if it has been the family home and an order can be made for it to be divided between the divorcing spouses. However, for all other purposes it remains the sole property of the person named as owner with Land Registry. That person can sell the property without the permission of their spouse and leave it to whoever they wish in their will. There is the possibility of contesting a will if it doesn’t make adequate provision for a surviving spouse but that is very expensive and success is not guaranteed.

I bought an Edwardian house in the early 2000’s and whilst it was registered with the land registry I was given the paper deeds back to when it was built by a Mill Owner. Fascinating trip back into the history of the home. But no legal standing now. I think k this is just an example of language remaining when the process changes.