Ds name calling/bullying

[Bemyclementine]

I have been told today that DS2 has been "mean" to another boy in his class, who he has always been friends with. Hes saud similar things to a sibling and i do believe that he has been doing this.

I really hate the thought of him being a bully, i don't understand where its coming from or why he thinks its ok. Other than his dad is an arsehole (split when he was a baby but does see him)

I want to deal with this properly but really dont know how to go about it so looking for advice/suggestions and also if anyone has any books they can recommemd for us to go through together.

Im so bloody angry and my instinct is to come down hard on him. Hes a lovely boy in general, bit of a cheeky chap but never any real trouble.

Hes 9 btw

What kind of things has he been saying and how often?

Fat, stupid, ugly, idiot etc. Its caused one boy to refuse to go to school. I dont know how often at school but he has done it with a sibling.

Bloody hell OP, your instinct is not wrong, I would be coming down very hard on this. I think I'd also want my child to have some form of intervention or therapy if possible, as this behaviour can stem from disturbance/unhappiness in the 'bully' child's life. If he tells you all is fine, he might speak to someone else about what is potentially wrong.

Your son does need to understand the hurt he has caused and to make some serious inroads to making it right.

Have him write the child an apology, including a list of some positive things he knows and appreciates about the child.

Invite the child and his parent to meet in the local playground to forge a new relationship.

Never accept any excuse for bullying.

If he bullies his sibling, enact immediate withdrawal of his devices/phone, and any privileges like pocket money.

State that if you hear of him name calling in that nasty, mean way again his pocket money will be handed over to his sibling until he learns respect..

Explain that being a kind and decent human is the most important aspect of a person's character.

@YesThatsATurdOnTheRug that is my worry, i have read that often the bully has an underlying "issue". His dad is a bully but he sees so little of him you'd hope it would not have such an influence.

@user1492757084 thank you, i appreciate your suggestions.

Id really appreciate any input with this. Ds is denying it. I feel stuck because hes getting upset that I dont believe him. BUT the things the other child has said, are the exact words DS uses to his sibling.

At that age, remove his computer (and phone if he has one though seems a bit young for phone)
Remove pocket money
Remove access to extra things he likes to do for a set period.
Check with school what they'd like you to do (letters etc would normally happen at school ) other parent may not want to do a playdate etc.
Words hurt and have consequences. That age group are very adept and telling parent it wasn't them etc, but as you've already said there's similarities between what was said and what you've heard him say to a sibling.
Dad may be a factor but it's important to focus on the immediate (my ds father was a violent bully but I still taught ds right from wrong)

Ds is denying it because he’s ashamed, he knows what he did was wrong and he’s panicking now you know about it. You must make it clear that you would think better of him if he could admit what he has done. Perhaps tell a story from your childhood where you eventually came clean and felt better for it.

He needs to face up to this in order to address it and stop himself doing it again.

It's a bit of a stretch suggesting therapy. He isn't torturing animals fgs.

This reminds me of the confusion I felt with my son. Turned out he was and still is of course Autistic/ ADHD. I'm not saying this is the situation here btw.

If your instincts are very strongly telling you that he has done this - then I'd sit down with him and say. I believe you did do this and have said this and this is why I believe it.

Then explain - It will cause alot of trouble if you keep doing this. This is what could happen ( outline trouble in school, for example loss of school privileges, having friends turn against him, how personal insults hurt friends and people can see you as a bully.

I'd ask him what is going on for him. Does he dislike this boy. And it's ok if he does. Let him explain what's going on for him. He might feel he has good reason to dislike whoever he says this to.

I would ask to have a chat with school. I'd ask them to keep an eye on it. I'd ask what they're going to do in school time to help support you in re directing away from this behaviour.

Try not over panic about it. You just need a better understanding of why he's doing it and how much he understands the problems it can cause him if he keeps calling people names like that and alienating himself.

Your sense of panic and concern feels disproportionate. Not helped by the suggestions this requires therapy based on this alone. So that says you're so concerned how you're being perceived as a mum that you're losing perspective. I have done this myself so often. It feels like you're judged when you know you're a decent person with nice values 🙏 I do get that unpleasant feeling.

Ask school to help, to keep an eye out and support redirection.

Remember the hideous things kids would say in the 80s growing up - if you're that old like me. It was appalling and even nicer kids did it. He'll work his way through this one.

I put the tablet out of sight and he hasnt asked for it. Ive told him i dont want to disbelieve him but ut doesnt stack up. He knows its better to come clean..

Tell him the consequences for lying are worse than just telling the truth and dealing with it together.

Perhaps tell him he can write out the truth on a letter if he doesn't want to say it, or he can whisper it to you
But if you 100% know from the teacher that he has been saying names then definitely go hard on the lying and emphasise yiu understand embarrassment and shame over making bad choices and being cruel - naturally- but you must own up and take responsibility to change.

If you don't know and haven't heard from the teacher then you need to set a meeting with his teacher ASAP to discuss this. Look on their anti bullying policy on their school website or ask for a copy at school and mirror the same consequences across so you're saying the same thing to him.
He's way too old to be acting this way with minimal consequences so I think coming down hard but firm and fair is the way to go

I like the apology and positive quality notes as rec above
Also maybe taking him into school together to chat to his teacher about it

Why do you think he says things like this to his sibling? Is he competing for attention? I think I’d really work on spending time with him, developing some interests of his, building his self esteem. What is he good at? Tell him and develop it. Or what is he interested in? Try to develop that. He actually sounds very sad in himself to me. You just don’t feel the need to hurt others if you’re confident in yourself and your abilities. Can be anything.

@Vestus I dont know. He cones across as confident but he isnt really. You are right about the self esteem, he is down on himself and his abilities despite being very bright and capable

So on top of bullying, he’s lying about it?

You do need to come down hard on this OP. A child doesn’t want to go to school because of your son. Children die by suicide because of shit like this.

@Moen I know, i do know. Its unimaginable i suppose i havent really come across either of them outright lying like this abd itsxmade me question myself.

Who has more reason to lie, the other child or your son? You know he’s lying OP.

I would be making him write a letter, and hand deliver it to the other child’s house. He would lose all privileges and when he was ready to tell the truth, I would then work on the reasons why he thinks it’s acceptable to bully other children.

I would also be speaking to the school and making them aware, and asking if they have noticed anything.

It really does need stamping out immediately.

If he’s denying it then tell him you’ve no choice but to go into school to talk to the teacher, maybe the threat of that might make him come clean

Hmmm unpleasant to say the least.
Yep, this DEFINITELY needs sorting, otherwise he's going to grow up & be one of those awful men bullying his wife/partner & anyone else who gets in his way.

How do you plan to tackle it?

I am speaking to the school today, and also can see the other child and mum this morning. Im not sure about that though as dont want to put the other child on the spot. They got on very well yesterday (they normally do)

Screen time has been totally removed (this is a huge deal for him)

I just want to clarify, i am absolutely taking this seriously.

@IknowwhatIneedtodo you have described his dad there unfortunately. Still bullies his own parents.

fwiw you sound like a fab mum and that you’re doing your best. I would ask the school for advice and look at some sort of restorative justice approach with your DS and the other boy. Maybe DS can write a card or make something for the other boy?

So how did it go OP?

Hugs OP. It's harder than being at the other end of it. When DS2s former friend bullied him like this the Mum asked to meet me for a chat, she apologised on her sons behalf and was so open and kind about it. She didn't get into why it happened or consequences but said she was dealing with it. 2 years later they are friends again and we car pool, all is good.

DS1 i felt was at risk to be a like your Ds. I don't know if he ever took it far in school but he was the cool kid who would laugh up his sleeve at others. It was really hard and we talked a lot about words hurting and feelings etc but I don't know what helped. At around 8 he engraved something mean about a neighbour on a tree, it was in retaliation to a mean thing the other kid engraved, but significantly worse. I frogmarched him to the neighbours house and made him apologise and he was mortified. He oroginally denied it but I pretended to message a neighbours chat group to ask for cctv footage and he confessed.

It's hard if he won't admit it, I think maybe you'l have to lie about a big investigation in the school and interviewing witnesses etc and tell him there will be a really severe punishment that increases the longer the denial goes on.

Just ask him how he'd feel if people started calling him, stupid, ugly, fat etc.
That if he doesn't want to be friends anymore for whatever reason that's fine but you don't call people horrible names. If adults did stuff like that they could get badly hurt, or in trouble with the police.

Then take away something like his devices for a few days. And say they'll go permanently if he acts like that again.