Why does the UK stop caring for its surroundings?

[Nutmuncher]

As a frequent visitor to my local city I’ve seen the last few years of rapid growth and development of the city centre, lots of huge new spaces and public domains have been created, lovely planters etc. It seems though that once the things are built that’s it, they’re just left to rot away and no one seems to care for them.

There’s a glass bridge near the Cathedral for example which must be around 10 years old, the glass has probably never been cleaned covered in algae, the pavements covered in gum, graffiti and litter on either side of it. It perhaps gets the occasional stop by a street cleaner but no proper cleaning.

Surely there’s a role for a team of people to clean public spaces regularly, like actually going around scraping stickers off lamp posts, removing graffiti, replanting planters? Why do we just build things then leave them unkept to rot away? It would have a huge impact on the feel and aesthetics of our surroundings yet is so far down the priority list nothing gets done.

I didn't say people on £60k should pay more tax. I gave an example of what it would cost if people on two different salaries paid 1p in the pound more tax.

It's surprisingly little.

I gave two examples. Didn't dictate anything.

Don't lower income folk already pay a higher taxes than higher earners in terms of percentage of income? Thinking of VAT, Council Tax etc.

I would take graffiti over litter, every time.

It will not go down well with the professionally offended and so it can never happen.

Not under this govt anyway.

Our drains don't even get cleared any more (which is a bit more specialist and therefore Joe Public can't really do).

So the roads and pavements flood because the drains are blocked, and when it finally drains away there is a thick layer of dirt left everywhere.

You know it won't happen though.

You'd pay more yes, but it won't go on litter or maintenance.

Ok so which income bracket do you want to pay more?

I haven't at any stage said any particular bracket should pay more so I really do not know why you're banging away at this with me. Can you explain why please?

I've given examples how little a year people would pay if tax just went up 1p in the £1.
I've said if people aren't prepared to pay more then there are other things they can do to contribute e.g. volunteer/campaign. (both of which I do).
I've also said that that if you're not prepared to do any of the above then there's no point complaining about poor services.

If we all did a bit more of all there's a good chance our part of the world would be a better place. Whether that's tax or litter picking it doesn't matter.

Everyone who can should do something positive whatever their tax bracket and that doesn't only mean paying more tax. Do you not think that's the case?

Here's the litter my litter picking group collected in our town yesterday.
17 people. 20 bags. 1 hour.

Fantastic work, well done! 👏

You’re ‘banging on’ about paying more tax as you put it. Apart from telling everyone you want to do that tax policy does actually have to apply to a particular group.

Does it? Could we not all just apply a it to every group? Just a tiny bit more - like the cost of a pint in the pub every week for example.

In my role as an absolute nobody I apply it to everyone. Then let's hold the government and our local councils accountable for every penny we spend rather than squabbling and moaning amongst ourselves.

Let's all volunteer one hour a week. How fantastic would this country be then?

Isn’t it a combination of Councils having no money and people thinking it’s ok to make a mess.

I went to the beach on Sunday, Sydney Northern Beaches, absolutely packed. Went to the toilet, spotlessly clean, soft paper, soap provided. Lots of people showering, shower area looked clean too. Zero rubbish on the grassy area or on the sand, I didn’t see bins being emptied but they must have been as they weren’t full. The worst cases of people making a mess here are the Christmas/New Year beach parties mainly frequented by overseas backpackers and yes, they are a disgrace.

There's no "council team" of people where I am doing this kind of stuff. However, there are community groups who do things like litter pick, re-flower planters (some are sponsored by businesses too), maintain the "library" in the old phone booth and even a local window cleaner has a social media page where he pressure washes street signs that haven't been cleaned in probably forever!

So there is definitely pride, but a lot of it is done by residents (and sometimes businesses) giving their own time and money. Once our village won most well looked after village award, not recently, but clearly there are still people who care.

Someone posted recently about unkempt grass verges on social media and weedy pavements. By the next day, a person had obviously seen the post and gone along and tidied it all up, pulled out all the weeds.

This. I drove up the M1 in South Yorkshire yesterday and the amount of roadside litter on the verges is absolutely disgusting. This area, as its the side of the motorway, is inaccessible to volunteers. It's absolutely disgusting and embarrassing the state it's in. I emailed National Highways to complain.

It’s frustrating to think that all of our surroundings and public spaces could be vastly improved if the political will, funds and man power were in place. The impact on our quality of life would be immense if our streets and towns were kept in good condition.

How much worse is it going to get before we demand things change, or is that it now -we’re left facing a reality where many towns and cities will be left to rot away and resemble poverty stricken third world countries?

@Nutmuncher

Is it such a bad idea? I do think there’s scope for potentially offering this as a form of ‘paid’ benefits work for those who wanted to do it. There must be a way of mobilising those unemployed who could be able to do this?

I can’t see the issue with asking people who don’t work to help with community projects. If they are getting in the region of £2500/month for rent & living costs then if they did say 20hrs/month they would be getting an hourly rate of £125. I don’t think anyone expects them to do 40hrs/week. Lots of people work full time & volunteer on top of that running scout groups, sports teams, litter picking, running school PTA, helping at primary school events. So someone with no work should be able to contribute something to their local community in a positive way. I don’t understand the outrage.

@Nutmuncher also YANBU I have really noticed how scruffy the UK is in the last couple of years. I’ve been to a few other European countries & every single one of them is cleaner.

It’s a combination of lack of funding and culturally the Brits seem to be less proud of their surroundings than other European countries. Litter everywhere, graffiti, fly tipping etc seem commonplace.

I really do think it could work, especially if it were to be something claimants could opt into. Obviously those with disabilities would be exempt but anyone else claiming whilst not working or doing very part time hours could be offered the chance. Make it a vocation or have it work as a credit system where the work they do is recognised and managed in such a way that it goes towards helping people get back into the workplace.

the voluntary litter pickers here litter pick at the same time as they are putting the flags up

@JenniferBooth that’s not the type of people who litter pick round my way. We tend to get Green Party voters who work in the public sector. They definitely aren’t the flag flying types. Well perhaps a Palestinian one rather than a Union flag.

In Ireland, the annual Tidy Towns competition made a big difference to the care and upkeep of towns, villages and suburban areas.

In the US, there are programmes in many states where groups can Adopt-a-Highway or a stretch of an urban street, keeping litter picked up, reporting fly tipping, etc.

The litter pickers here are a wide mix of folk from all walks of life. We all get on well and have a really sociable and satisfying time.

Most people, whatever their political bent want to live in a decent environment.

It’s depressing how rundown and decrepit the UK now looks. Unless you live in a middle class area you see those problems far more frequently.

What I don’t understand is weren’t schools instilling environmental awareness in children through the 90s and 00s? I remember our classes going out planting trees, litter picking in the playground, going on residentials to the countryside. I wouldn’t ever for a single second, litter or fly tip or have a trashed garden and I lived on a council estate in the 90s.

Did a huge cohort of Millenial and Gen Z’s parents fail to teach their children to care for their surroundings, not to litter or graffiti? Surely the decision makers in government and councils grew up in clean looked after towns and cities, what made then think let’s stop prioritising maintenance and just hope for the best… slums and filthy streets are great for the image of our town.

Boomers, Gen X and Millennials all grew up where civic pride was a thing, how did that fail suddenly within a generation? How did a vast chunk of our population just stop caring?

There's a lot of litter in my town. People put out rubbish for the bin lorry the night before (no bins here, just bags) and animals go through them, causing such a mess. Then the bin lorry people only pick up the stuff that's carry-able, leaving a lot of crap behind.

In my tiny street the council haven't cleaned the leaves since last autumn, and they've broken down to a sludge now. I'm sorely tempted to say F*ck it, I'll clean it myself despite paying the council a princely sum to do it for me.

(The same council that wasted £15.5m on doing up the market square and made a huge loss on the Christmas skating rink, iykyk)