Why does the UK stop caring for its surroundings?

[Nutmuncher]

As a frequent visitor to my local city I’ve seen the last few years of rapid growth and development of the city centre, lots of huge new spaces and public domains have been created, lovely planters etc. It seems though that once the things are built that’s it, they’re just left to rot away and no one seems to care for them.

There’s a glass bridge near the Cathedral for example which must be around 10 years old, the glass has probably never been cleaned covered in algae, the pavements covered in gum, graffiti and litter on either side of it. It perhaps gets the occasional stop by a street cleaner but no proper cleaning.

Surely there’s a role for a team of people to clean public spaces regularly, like actually going around scraping stickers off lamp posts, removing graffiti, replanting planters? Why do we just build things then leave them unkept to rot away? It would have a huge impact on the feel and aesthetics of our surroundings yet is so far down the priority list nothing gets done.

A large proportion of the population do not care for their surroundings and are raising their children the same way - deliberately dropping litter, spitting, fly tipping, damaging public / private property, stealing and so on.

If people weren't like this we wouldn't need council funds or volunteers to pick litter, remove chewing gum, fix damaged playgrounds etc.

In other countries it is unheard of to drop your rubbish on the floor, damage floral displays etc. I don't know why we're raising generations to think this is normal and expected. It's really sad.

Agree with this.

Just look at the litter strewn absolutely everywhere, it’s worse than ever and councils rely on local litter picking groups, instead of being much more proactive and hiring staff to get out there and fine the selfish idiots that do it.

This is the result of nobody wanting to pay tax and successive governments knowing this and so reducing/capping tax to win votes.

Everyone wants to live in a nice place. Nobody wants to pay for it.

In the absence of any money for keeping things nice my town runs on volunteers - about 80% of whom are pensioners helped by the local scouts and Duke of Edinburgh award youngsters from the local school.

We have a litter picking group, an In Bloom group, a Christmas light group and a beach cleaning group. Someone has just, entirely off their own bat, started a mens' shed. There are so many other groups that run on volunteers - kids football, swimming clubs, youth club, dementia group.

It's a really lovely place to live. There's definitely community here.

People just don't care.

It's easier to blame the government or the council than it is to realise that you have to take responsibility for your environment as well.

@saltandvinegarpringles My point is that where I live people DO care. They care enough to volunteer, start groups and help make the town a better place. A large number of us are involved and give our time every week.

Completely agree with this. The dystopian feel is so true, driving around some towns particularly in the NW you do wonder how people can wilfully ignore the state of their own homes, it’s like some collective depressive disorder that makes them void of any pride or self worth. Graffiti, litter, broken street furniture, grimy pavements. It’s now the norm.

The broken window theory is absolutely true, decay and deprivation quickly reaches a tipping point when allowed to do so. Whether it’s the state of people’s houses or the general acceptance of incredibly poor upkeep of the streets and tolerance of low standards, it soon becomes defacto.

Ah sorry, I wasn't clear :)

I was trying to say that the reason places aren't like where you live (and where I live, thankfully) is because most people don't care enough to do anything about it and make it better.

@saltandvinegarpringles Ah, sorry, I was being dim. I get it now. It's nice to know that people care where you are too.

The trouble is the tax burden is the highest in 70 odd years so it’s higher tax plus litter.

@ChurchTower

This is the result of nobody wanting to pay tax and successive governments knowing this and so reducing/capping tax to win votes.

I think it's more that people are getting fed up of ever increasing taxes but seeing no improvements for it, in fact public services are getting worse, and people just see lots of waste and inefficiency. The "social contract" has been broken by successive governments and local authorities and other governmental quangos, most of which is now seen by the general public as self serving rather than the aim of "public service". Certainly people I know of who indulge in the black economy, tax evasion and benefit fraud often do so because they don't think they get value for money for their taxes anymore and don't see the "benefit" of ever declining public services. I think the only way out of the death spiral is nothing short of a public service revolution.

Our tax burden is still low compared to other European countries notably Denmark, France and Germany. Interesting to compare the litter problem here to other countries.

@taxguru "Certainly people I know of who indulge in the black economy, tax evasion and benefit fraud often do so because they don't think they get value for money for their taxes anymore and don't see the "benefit" of ever declining public services. "

I wonder what else they do to improve the situation other than take, steal and avoid contributing?

The people you know are a key part of the problem and one of the reasons the rest of us have to a)pay more and b) spend our weekends volunteering.

I hope you report them.

@taxguru "The "social contract" has been broken by successive governments and local authorities and other governmental quangos, most of which is now seen by the general public as self serving rather than the aim of "public service".

And yet there is my MP working like a demon to improve things in our local area. In the shopping centre every week speaking to people and taking action.

My local town councillors are in the town hall giving days of their free time or no salary each month. They're out volunteering on litter picks and running the football club. This is public service. So many thousands of people do this every week.

These people are not self serving. These are the good guys who deserve funding and that is missed by people who just churn out the negativity. How many news sources talk about this?

Whilst the papers drone on about quangos and whilst your friends are avoiding tax, thousands of people are getting stuff done that never gets reported.

Yes I agree. There is a growing trend where I live to drive over grass verges to get to illegal driveways. Ploughing up green spaces it looks awful and impacts the whole area. There is one verge that was full of daffodils and now it is just a mud pit. People just don't seem to care. There are lots of roadside parking spaces so need to do this at all.

I think as a society we have lost ‘shame’. We got rid of shame where it was unkind and inappropriate- unmarried mothers/fathers, very young parents, but have now got no societal expectation of certain standards- so people wear pyjamas and dressing gowns in the supermarket, and let their environment be untidy.

There was a time when we (mainly women) scrubbed our doorsteps and kept our environment clean as a matter of pride.

How do we bring back corporate pride? I live on an estate of quite expensive, big houses. The cars are mainly expensive and regularly washed. The front gardens and front doors are really shabby- peeling paint, weeds. In contrast my front garden and door are well maintained, and my car only gets washed when it’s in the garage.

@ChurchTower I have been one of the people you mention, working hard for the community. A woman complained about the state of the pavement outside her home and wanted to know who to complain to. I gave her the info, but mentioned in passing that I do the patch near my house regularly myself- even just rubbing pavement weeds with your foot as you pass really helps keep it down, no weed killer necessary. She was outraged at the suggestion she could help keep it in check.

This probably won’t be popular on here but I think one of the main issues is that messy homes have become acceptable and people who say they vacuum daily or whatever are roundly mocked and told they clearly have no life.

It’s now considered totally okay not to care about your home or your environment 🤷‍♀️

I agree. There is also no enforcement of any rules.

i live in central London in a fairly “desirable area”. But when I have had family visiting (I am not British) I have felt embarrassed about the state of the area. Lots of rubbish everywhere, dog poo smeared in the pavement every few steps, etc.

I don't think that correlation exists... I mean, I definitely don't vacuum daily, but I also never litter.

Also one person's 'messy' is another person's 'perfectliy acceptable'.

Who do you want to pay more?

Some if this isn’t new though; fly tipping and litter has been a problem for years. A lot of the tidying up was done by volunteers but there are probably less volunteers today because of life constraints

I think it’s complex, obviously there are the ones who don’t care but people are tired now & I think many only have the capacity to do the bare minimum.

I would never drop litter but I cannot devote the hours to housework/gardening to have a pristine home. I have too many other things to juggle.

I agree with @MidnightPatrol that businesses have got lazy too. I was in an expensive cafe yesterday and the floor & toilets were not clean enough.

Our tax burden is still low compared to other European countries notably Denmark, France and Germany.

Thats because we tax lower & middle earners less than those countries. Higher earners are in line.
The issue with taxing the others more is housing costs.

There is probably a link between the amount of people renting and pride in homes particularly if you have a crappy landlord.

I'm in Spain atm. It's true the seafront areas are beautifully maintained, but get 500m up into the town and there is graffiti everywhere!

I don't think this is a UK thing.

Do minor offenders still get sentenced to "100 hours unpaid community work" or the like? What does that actually entail? I'd've thought litter picking and general cleaning/maintenance would be ideal.