Possibly messed up with UC, advice please?

[Namechanging110]

I'm not sure how much I should be panicking over this but the whole thing is quite new to me and I'm so scared of getting it wrong because financially things are tight as they are.

I split from my ex husband a while ago (bad situation and me and child ended up homeless for quite some time) and then I began claiming uc for childcare costs as a lone parent wft as my now ex husband was no longer involved outside of paying some maintenance.

I've since been able to get 'divorced' but he's completely refused to engage with solicitors so I've not yet been able to get a financial agreement in place meaning I can't take money from our joint account because I don't know what will be his and what will be mine. We also had a house which was in his name and was owned by him before we met. I was never added to the deeds etc. I paid my portion of the mortgage to him and didn't cover any bills relating to the ownership of the house directly and am not named on those. It will eventually sell but its not 'my' house if you see what I mean.

When I set up uc I declared all of my personal (individual) bank accounts but they're now saying I should also have declared my sons bank account (its in his name, completely separate and I can only pay into it - I can't withdraw from it he will need to do that at 18) and now I'm thinking I should have declared the joint accounts as well even though they have been untouched since our split and I've been told by my solicitor not to touch it if I'm able to use my personal account anyway.

I'm going to declare everything now but I'm absolutely shitting myself and worried ill need to pay money back if they include what's in the joint account (most of which is joint savings for our son that I've been told I can't close and move into the other savings account in his name or access until financial arrangements are signed off - not that i would anyway as i see it as his money) which would put me over the threshold for uc. I'd probably still have been entitled but at a much more reduced rate from the beginning.

Are they going to look at this as 'my' money? 90% of it will eventually go to my son's own account and is currently in a separate 'pot' under his name attached to the joint account that I've paid all my child benefit into prior to the split (i then set up the other account for him) but the rest that's in the joint account if we agreed to split it equally would only work out at a couple of hundred each, it's not a lot of money and wouldn't put me over threshold if that makes sense?

I'm just so unclear on how this all works and when I spoke to uc on the phone before setting up a claim, I was told verbally this wasn't "my" money and I didn't need to declare it but now I'm thinking that was wrong info or that I've misunderstood- at the time I was completely floored with a shock breakup in a traumatic way so I probably wasn't in the best space to be making decisions on anything or processing information I was just surviving.

Can anyone please give me advice (and talk me down).

You should have declared the joint accounts and the other property.

You should have declared the joint bank account. If you have no access to your sons account that it is OK. The automatic assumption would be that you have access to half of the money in a joint account and UC calculated accordingly. Your solicitor may have been advising not to use the joint account in relation to making the split easier but that doesn’t relate to the benefit side. You can explain.

You do not own the property so do not need to declare it. Later when the settlement happens that may change.

Your sons account should not affect UC and you can challenge if they say it does (one month to request mandatory reconsideration.

here your joint account is a bit like the example of a friend in this link, you don’t have a partner but also haven’t reached a settlement
https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/jointly-owned-capital-universal-credit

I think the house does have to be declared as due to being married you have an interest in it. As I understood it, it would be disregarded for 6 months after you moved out or indefinitely if your ex is living in it as a lone parent (which he isn’t). It could be disregarded for a further 6 months of up for sale. But you need legal advice.

You need to declare it and let a decision maker decide. Your son’s account should be fine as he has the benefical interest in it and you can’t access it. Any other accounts including joint that are in your name need to be declared.

I did get advice from uc and a citizens advice service about the house and both said that because my name is on nothing and because he still lives there and I don't, I don't need to declare it until i actually get proceeds from a sale at which point I have 6 months to get sale agreed on another house before its counted.

@Cookingdoesntgettougher thanks this is clear and helpful. It would be so much easier if we could just get an agreement in place. Especially since its not like its a big sum so at least I'd know what I'm working with. But I've declared it so I guess what will be will be. I just wasn't sure how much trouble I'd be in as obviously I depend on uc, need to save to buy when I can and I can't afford rent and nursery costs without it.

I would double check that as you have an interest in the house - capital 47. Where a person and one or more other persons have a beneficial interest in a capital asset, those persons are to be treated, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, as if they were each entitled to an equal share of the whole of that beneficial interest.from https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/part/6#:~:text=Where%20a%20person%20and%20one,Kingdom%20to%20a%20willing%20buyer.

I'm in Northern Ireland so maybe rules are slightly different here...

When in doubt go with telling the DWP so do it about the property just make clear that you are nut on mortgage or land registry and there has not been a settlement.

How did they know about your son’s account. Is your name on it as well? As @PonyMcBony said shouldn’t because problem at all. Only issue if joint is if you have accessed it in the past for things like bills/food when they may think that it isn’t all your sons.

No my name isn't on it and I can't withdraw from it at all. They'd asked for bank statements and I had paid some of my child maintenance into the isa so I had put a note under the upload to explain the transaction incase they wondered. I also stated the type of account, that it was in his name and that I could only pay into it, he'll only be able to access it when he's 18. And they said I still need to declare it as one of my bank accounts and savings.

It's never been accessed for anything, it can't be accessed until he turns 18 and only by him. Initially I'd had a 'pot' attached to my savings account which was never touched but I'd been told that could be looked at as 'my' money which is why I opened the long term isa to make that really clear that it wasn't. I just didn't want to continue paying anything into the savings pot for my son that was attached to the joint account incase my ex decided to empty it because he obviously can access that. I probably should have set it up better but the breakdown in the marriage was really traumatic for reasons I don't want to get into and I was literally going through the motions at that time so going and opening a separate bank account for ds wasn't even on my radar.

Benefits specialist here. You would have been told at time of claiming to declare all accounts in your name including joint accounts. It is irrelevant to them whether or not the money was going to be accessed by you, only that you could. You may be facing a significant overpayment issue.

But surely it does matter if in reality I am or am not able to use the money? And like I said, at the time of claiming I was not in a good hesdspace to be doing anything, I can't even remember applying let alone what i was told.

I haven't been claiming for that long and as I said, even if the amount in the joint account were to be assumed an equal split it's only a few hundreds worth that would be proportioned to me so I'd say I'd only have been over the £6k threshold by a small amount for the space of maybe 3 months if even. Provided they accept that the attached savings for my son were not 'mine' to use and keep? Is having moved that to the long term isa enough proof of that as well as the statements that it wasn't used by me and only paid into and not out of? Obviously if I owe anything I'd repay it as quickly as I could but my uc is also my gateway to accessing legal aid for all my court costs so I absolutely cannot afford to lose it.

You know you were meant to declare it, have the spiralling. Just accept it, you may even need to use the money now as things have changed and you’ll most likely be sanctioned

Well it is kind of relevant!

You could be piling up a small fortune for your son there in a separate bank account - even if you cant touch it. I am not on benefits. I cant afford to do that atm.

So I dont think its right that tax payers are paying for you to be building a savings pot - even if it isnt yours!

If you only moved the money into your son’s ISA and the money was previously in a savings account in your name, UC will likely consider the money to be yours. Joint at a minimum.

Even if it was in a separate 'pot' under his name?

I understand your point, but the only reason why I've been able to save for dc at all is a) because i was homeless and a family member let us stay with them rent free so i could save to get a rental. And b) because my ex pays maintenance which isn't counted for uc. I can't depend on that being regular as he's not stable as a person so it's sporadic and his work is also unstable so it could stop any day. So I put any child maintenance aside for my son in his account so I know i can manage my bills myself if that money stopped and I cover everything my child needs by budgeting and being frugal with my own wage. We have very little left over at the end of the month outside of child maintenance after I pay to top up nursery and rent costs. I am also a tax payer and always have been.

Complete nonsense OP

What a load of tosh , you can’t be staying somewhere rent free because you need to save to get a rental but at the same time be redirecting child maintenance payments into your son’s savings pot . If you need to save to get a rental then you save all of your money , not redirect it into a child’s savings account , no way are they going to buy that story .

Its relevant if you did have legal access to the money, whether or not you were advised not to draw on it. You may have a tariff deduction applied going back to the start of your claim for any funds counted as savings that are over £6k. This would be applied at £4.35 per every £250 over £6k, per relevant UC assessment period. Your child's account is potentially going to be disregarded- they will look at that and let you know. However, if you had control of it and moved it around the time of claiming it will be flagged as potential deprivation of capital- a decision maker will make that call.
If as you say you don't remember claiming, what you declared or what you agreed to when you accepted the commitments for UC- I can't advise you there, it isn't generally something clients present me with. Claiming and accepting UC is fairly detailed and no decision maker is going to accept you had no concept of the claim at all.

If at the time you could access it, absolutely, yes, that is what the decision maker will decide. Moving it into the ISA will not look good, either.

If you had nothing to hide then you would've hidden nothing. You hid your bank accounts (more than one) and now you're shitting yourself that you might have to pay back money you weren't entitled to?

This is a lesson not to play the system really.

OP should be totally transparent.

If you have no savings but own a house are you not entitled to UC?

You are entitled to UC (depending on meeting the other requirements of course) if you own a house; any interest you hold in a property obviously has to be declared and UC will apply any relevant disregards (some are time limited) or applicable capital rules when deciding/reviewing a claim.

I think you've missed the part where I was reeling from a traumatic incident and lost pretty much everything at the time I was setting this up. Absolutely zero playing the system at work here. I know people like to think people are scroungers but that's not what this is. I hope if you ever find yourself in my shoes that you find a bit more compassion.

With respect OP that isn't the point. People do have traumatic and life affecting events. It doesn't negate your responsibilities when it comes to claiming means tested benefits. The rules and obligations are clearly explained at the time of and during a claim. Only if you had reduced capacity (ie had to have an appointee or someone with POA for you) would your capacity to make informed decisions be of any legal relevance here. There are multiple people in all kinds of difficult situations navigating the same system, and all having to follow the same set of rules.