Alton Towers to remove disability pass for people with ADHD and anxiety

[AnitaRita]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2gwgj4xreo
Too many people wanting to join the "Fast pass queue" so you actually end up with two queues rather than one queue and a fast entry! Got to agree with them - if you're too anxious to queue then a white knuckle ride is probably not for you!

But they did make an effort and people took the piss and ruined it for the rest

I find these kinds of comments so annoying! I don’t make comments on subjects, I know nothing about!

DD1 has severe epilepsy. She can suffer a type of seizure called drop attack, whereby she falls down unconscious and may suffer an injury, including concussion, broken teeth or broken bones, at any time. She could break her neck. In fact, if she has any seizure standing up, she can fall down unconscious. Not to mention the dangers of stairs, train platforms, pavements on busy roads, water or sources of heat. We can suffer injuries too, if she knocks us over. Going out with her is extremely stressful, after all the experiences of 999 calls and long waits in A & E! Care workers find it so stressful, they insist on 2:1 staffing to take her out.

Sometimes, when we are going somewhere important like a hospital appointment or a flight, or we do not feel like the stress of another trip to A & E, we take her in a wheelchair. I know other parents with children with severe epilepsy, who do the same thing. Our children can walk perfectly well; but not reliably - they could fall and break a bone within 2 minutes!

DD1 looks normal and able bodied. Nobody should go round making judgments about what other people can and can’t do, unless they know them.

Which is not the fault of the genuinely disabled.

There is no real evidence people have ruined it for the rest with fake claims. No stats or verified examples of anyone falsely claiming these passes. It’s far more likely that theme park ride delays are caused by the same things they’ve always been caused by - theme parks selling too many tickets for an acceptable experience, poor queue tech use so the waiting system is inefficient and allowing people to pay to queue jump so people who have the paid fast passes ride all they like while people without a paid fast pass wait.

The thing is, as someone with no RAP I have not noticed any extra queuing when I go to theme parks (however I do only go during term time on weekdays). It has been other RAP users who have been complaining that the current system isn’t working. I have no first hand experience at all how it used to be or how it is now. But reading things online, there are a lot of RAP who are not happy with how long the waits are on the current system.

No it doesn't.
RAP is virtual queuing. People still have to wait to get on a ride. They just wait elsewhere. No one is using RAP and coming off a ride and running round to the front of the queue multiple times.
That does not even happen with the Fast Track passes as they are one use only per ride, unless you spend £££ on the Platinum package.

This is how RAP works, so while people may not be going on the same ride repeatedly ride after ride, there are benefits and it is abused. They may be waiting elsewhere but that elsewhere could be going on another ride.

Family one (no RAP) enter the park and immediately get in the queue for Nemesis. They queue in the line for an hour, go on the ride then go to queue for Galactica, queue there for an hour, then ride then get lunch. Then queue for 90 minutes for the Smiler.

Family two (one RAP) enter the park and ride Nemesis with RAP, they then decide they want to go on Galactica and while hour wait is counting down for RAP they ride curse of Alton Manor and maurderers mayhem. They then go on Galactica and get some lunch while their counter is going down, walk over to the Smiler and ride that.

Family three (two RAP's) enter the park and ride Nemesis with RAP1, they then walk over to Galactica and ride that with RAP2. While waiting for RAP1 to count down they do a couple of rides in mutiny bay, they then walk over to the Smiler and ride that with RAP1. They get off the Smiler and ride Oblivion with RAP2. They then get lunch

No its not but thats life its not fair

Obviously most families are not abusing the pass, but the width of inclusion means that inevitably who wouldn’t use a very valuable perk even if hand on heart it’s not essential.

Then there is the Easyjet “speedy boarding” factor. Five speedy boarders, ten speedy boarders - worth it - sitting up front with best overhead lockers. But when the speedy boarders are all packed like sardines behind a rope and there are a handful of non-speedy boarders with a whole lounge and who will be sitting in no worse seats - system breaks down.

Surely the answer to that is to think about how to stop people taking the piss. The answer cannot be one that involves ignoring the law and refusing to make reasonable adjustments for disabled children and young people.

Tell me you know fuck all about autism, without telling me you know fuck all about autism! 🙄 Your ignorance about these conditions, coupled with your snide, mocking tone, is offensive.

And how would you suggest to do that. I would be entitled to a disability pass do I need one absolutely not. Would I use one to get out of queuing absolutely.

But what would be your suggestion? Everyone says there needs to be a way but I haven’t seen any suggestions of what that could be? Every time they bring in a new “rule” to try and help everyone complains it’s discrimination or it’s causing other issues.

Everyone who says they need a pass gets one = too many people in the RAP queues. Unsustainable.

Need a letter from the doctor = letters being used that are very out of date or using other people’s letters. Difficulty getting one from doctors. Sometimes need to pay to get one. All means “this is unfair on disabled people”.

Use a nimbus card = has led to similar complaints to the doctors letters. Also being claimed by some that it is easy to get the “can’t queue” symbol = leads to problems like the first one. Too many people in RAP queues.

Limit RAP to the disabled person +1 only = not fair on families and friends who want to all ride together.

Change RAP to pre booked only so numbers can be limited = discrimination claims as it restricts those who don’t know in advance if they can go. It’s excluding those with certain disabilities. Removes option of spontaneously going.

Change Nimbus rules = more discrimination claims and claims of excluding people

Do what Disney did and make all queues accessible for wheelchairs = not fair. Being disabled is hard enough so why remove one of the few perks.

@Smoosha i'd make it so you only get RAP with high rate mobility dla/pip, a blue badge or a social care plan. High rate mobility can be given to people with non physical needs likewise a blue badge which LA's can award at their discretion. A social care plan would demonstrate that a needs assessment has taken place and provision required.

I know people will say but what about.... but as with so many things there is only a limited amount of RAP that could be given for the adjustment to work and this is how I would do it. It would show that those who get it would have needs in everyday life not just in theme parks. Not every person has to have their disability needs met in tbe same way, just because someone is disabled doesn't mean that should get RAP to meet their needs.

What @Perzival says, possibly with the addition of those who have specific accredited medical reports saying they cannot queue.

I would suggest these places should limit entry anyway, it's ridiculous that they charge a fortune to people only for them to spend several hours standing in queues.

But that’s not what @Perzival said. And this is why there’s no clear answer. You can’t have rules that are “ONLY those that meet this specific requirement….. oh and lots of other people who get doctors notes to say they need it.” That’s pretty much what it used to be pre nimbus cards! And let’s face, pretty much what it is WITH nimbus cards as you need (or are meant to) doctors evidence to get one.

You’ve got to be joking. Do you know how difficult it is to get HRM on either child DLA or PIP. If you’re not physically disabled ? The bar is set so high that it doesn’t reflect the mobility needs of people with non physical conditions. And not all disabled people need a social care plan. The system is on it’s knees now, why put it under further stress by making it compulsory for people to have a needs assessment just for a bloody pass !!

They wouldn't get a needs assessment for a pass and the definitely won't get provision allocated in a pan, that's my point only those who need significant adjustments in life aside from theme parks would get RAP.

Yes, i do know how hard it is to get dla for someone with a non physical condition. My ds had high rate care from two years old then high rate mobility from three years old under severe mental impairment, he has severe autism. He will get high rate dla/pip for both care and mobility until the benefit is stopped or renamed. This wasn't challenged, there was no tribunal or mandatory reconsideration. It was just awarded. So in my opiniom HRM is awarded with relative ease for those who meet the criteria. I wish it wasn't so easy for my son then maybe his needs wouldn't be so bad that it is easily awarded.

I think RAP is given too easily to those who don't really need it. This would reduce the amount of RAP's given and ensure that those it is given to trully need it. That doesn't mean that others wouldn't need adjustments but not every disability has to have their needs met in the same way.

I can’t tell from your post whether you are currently claiming child DLA for your son, or whether he has been awarded PIP. If the former, then there is no guarantee that a PIP claim will be awarded at the same rate, or in fact, at all. The assessment criteria for PIP are very different from DLA and this is my point.

Aligning eligibility for these passes with needs assessed via PIP is unsafe. Firstly because the assessment system is deeply flawed and in very many cases doesn’t reflect actual need, and secondly because there is no such thing as a life award. All PIP claims are reviewed at some point. Those claimants with indefinite awards are reviewed by a light touch approach at the ten year stage but all claims are subject to review at any time the DWP deems it appropriate. So it would be akin to the problems faced by blue badge holders whose eligibility is determined by specific PIP award rather than Local Authority assessment. Eligibility for the BB ends if the PIP award changes or is withdrawn.

I’m glad your DS’s award was relatively easy to secure, and l do get your point about the severity of the condition speaking for itself, but you should know that it’s by no means the same for everyone. Many claimants have their conditions minimised by the PIP system which effectively reduces complex disability to a point scoring exercise. If you don’t easily fit into the narrowly drawn descriptors then your claim will be reduced or will fail and you will be forced o go to expensive tribunal, which for many will be the only place they will be viewed as a human being, by experts in their field, and therefore receive a fairer and more balanced decision.

What PIP award determines eligibility for a Blue Badge ?

Yes, i do know how hard it is to get dla for someone with a non physical condition. My ds had high rate care from two years old then high rate mobility from three years old under severe mental impairment, he has severe autism.

Perhaps I'm biased, but I think hardest to obtain is a HR mobility for a purely physical condition. The bar of being unable or virtually unable to walk at all is very high. Many of those who are part time (or even most of the time) wheelchair users don't get it.

Severe mental impairment is considered the hardest to qualify for generally, which is what my son's ckaim was under. Not only is there seven (i think from memory) tests that have to be evidenced but one of thoae is the pre req for high rate care and another is incomplete development of the brain. I will try to find a diagram to post and show you.

SMI flowchart

Pip both at high rate, no tribunal again or reconsideration. Again easy to claim. I doubt my son won't ever qualify unfortunately due to the severity of his needs. (Smi was for his dla, his pip claim is just under their normal questions).

I understand what you're saying in regards to having claims minimalised but surely if that's the case then those with high rate would be the ones who either do have the evidence to back up their claim or have a severe disability so that the award is easily made. It wouldn't be Merlin's responsibility to ensure the benefits system works correctly.

Using DLA/PIP as evidence for RAP would ensure those that genuinely do need it will get it. If you read my earlier post you will see that i also suggested a blue badge as evidrnce which LA's can give without the qualifying benefit at thrir discretion for both physical and non physical needs or a social care plan which would be evidence of requiring provision to meet needs in life rather than just for theme parks.

Whatever Merlin uses people will miss out or say it's unfair. I do think the criteria for RAP does need tightening and it's restricting.

Actually, DD doesn’t get social care assessments and care plans, because she is on NHS CHC funding. The bar for that is way higher imo. She gets higher rate mobility on DLA - she has yet to migrate to PIP, so I am not sure if she’d get higher rate mobility for that? She does get a blue badge, but I can’t remember if it relies on the HRM, or I send in the medical reports on her.

I read Disney’s advice on epilepsy and thought it was spot on. They clearly get good advice from somewhere!