Alton Towers to remove disability pass for people with ADHD and anxiety

[AnitaRita]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2gwgj4xreo
Too many people wanting to join the "Fast pass queue" so you actually end up with two queues rather than one queue and a fast entry! Got to agree with them - if you're too anxious to queue then a white knuckle ride is probably not for you!

My child probably falls within the category of you 'wondering' why he's in the disability queue.

Why on earth this child who can play in the playground, and get up and walk okay, in a pushchair, or being carried? In his case, it's because of fatigue caused by a brain tumour, which means whilst she is mobile, her stamina is massively reduced. Queues of upto 10 mins or so are fine, but much longer that, and I'll end up carrying her for the whole time. She's also ok at the beginning of the day but much more tired by lunch time. We don't stay all day, and when we are there we pace her activities between rides, rest and play.

She has the standing symbol, so this nimbus stuff isn't an issue for her thankfully.

If a theme park went for that system I’d be all for it. But did you see what happened when Merlin changed the rules on RAP and made you need to pre book them? So many parents of disabled children or disabled adults said it was limiting as they didn’t always know they were able to go until the day due to various issues caused by disabilities. People are not happy that RAP can sell out. A lot of people think they should be unlimited. So as much as you think what you proposed is a fair system, I can guarantee many will not agree.

But to just respond to your points. If a ride sells out then yes obviously it sells out for everyone who missed out. I don’t have an issue with that. But some might. Especially those who might need to book later on, or who have disabilities involving executive function problems. If a ride breaks down and and autistic person who was expecting to go on it now can’t, at all, that might cause issues. It’s unusual for a ride to totally break down for the entire day. But on your system if you miss your slot you can’t try again later. What if a family book the entire family entry tickets, but can only book half the rides they want due to some slots they need being sold out or clashing with other slots available? If it’s a case of tough luck for everyone in those situations then sure I don’t mind. I’m happy enough to have that system.

There will never be a system which is perfect for everyone. All that can be done is make reasonable adjustments.
What would happen under the current system at AT if someone misses their allotted place in the virtual queue?
If a ride breaks down it would be a matter of policy as to what would happen. A place being lost in a virtual queue would admittedly be very hard, but if it’s fully booked all day what would be the alternative?

@ohyesidothat’s great you don’t feel disabled by it. I’m an amputee due to cancer and also don’t feel disabled (though I objectively have a disability) and I don’t require a RAP or any reasonable adjustments as I can manage fine. However I’m not so ignorant to think that means all amputees ‘are pretending to have a disability’. Each person with a disability has they own experiences and needs.

I agree I was mulling this over earlier and I think this is what's gone wrong. We just can't have a system that meets a person''s needs perfectly without someone else's needs being trampled all over. We can't have an expectation that all our needs will always be perfectly met that it just doesn't work like that in a world with lots of people in it
. What would work for me to enjoy the rides is if when I went on the ride they went at a fraction of their normal speed. That's patently unreasonable so I just accept that theme parks aren't a suitable environment for me and find other activities to enjoy.
There has to be a happy medium.
For instance a theme park is never going to be able to guarantee that a particular ride is open on a particular day. And if you are terrible at time management for whatever reason I'm not sure that means the whole world needs to bend to your will.

It's about organisations making reasonable adjustments and balancing the needs of disabilities against the needs of the other customers.

I actually don’t know what happens if someone misses a time slot in the current situation. I’ve never used one. But I THINK they just time you out on them. So you don’t get an actual time slot you MUST use it in. Just that you need to wait the hour or whatever length of the queue. So I don’t think anything would stop you going back 3 hours later. You just need to have waited out the one hour. But I could be wrong and happy to be corrected if so.

I absolutely agree as well that if the system they bring in means if you miss your slot for any reason, whether it’s your own fault or a broken down ride, then that’s just tough and I will happily enough go along with that. But. I honestly can see some people asking for “reasonable adjustments” for certain disabilities that if their slot gets missed they can use a second slot. People already get to use a RAP for when a disability means they don’t understand queuing. If due to disability someone can’t understand why they can’t go on the ride even when they can see it’s running (was broken down during their slot but was running again within 30 mins) I can imagine people will ask for an adjustment in those cases.

If you can’t say “tough luck” to those who don’t understand physical queues, how can you say it to those who don’t understand virtual queues?

This. Perfect example of someone who is judged for using a wheelchair when there’s no ‘obvious’ disability. The level of ignorance and lack of empathy on this thread is astounding.

Disabled airport assistance is not just for people who can’t walk unaided/wheelchair users.

Oh do so many people not understand why standing in a queue for an hour or more would cause someone who
doesn't like being around people anxiety? Sitting on a ride with one other person for what is often under minutes is completely different!

There are also other medical conditions that prevent people from queuing but there’s only so much that can be explained to the blissfully ignorant!

The theme park near us used to give out queue skipping passes but each ride only allowed you to skip twice.. so it prevented people from running around and rejoining the queue skip queue again and again …

we were in Spain years ago at a water park and these kids had bought a fast pass and just kept running to the queue again & again .. we were stood there without moving while the kids had 3 consecutive goes…in the end the life guard told them to wait… and let several of us go before letting them on again!

always someone who abuses these systems! They should be handed out only to those with a real need. If you had to get a doctors note saying you couldn’t stand for long periods for X, Y or Z, people wouldn’t take the piss much.

years ago I worked with adults with disabilities and stood in a queue for something and one client shouted and punched me because he didn’t want to stand any longer! ….

society should make reasonable adjustments for people who need it. But I do know people who get queue jumping passes just because they can!… I would definitely back a scheme where they can only go on each ride twice!

They can learn.

Pay for a fast pass? That’s what I would do if
it really means as much as you say.

And some literally cannot. You need to educate yourself about neurodiversity.

Once they get on the ride, they are spaced away from all the other people on the ride, in their little 'cabin' (seat). It's not the same as jostling against people's shoulders, edging forwards, sometimes moving 30 paces, other tubes moving 3 paces in the queue.

They are sitting down, so they get the sensory feedback of the seat and harness against their back and chest.

Hearing people scream isn't the same as hearing, trying to process and filter, 15 conversations around you.

And some will. But one of the issues is, if someone is consistently given a fast pass from day one, is there any point in teaching/learning to queue? If there’s always a fast pass option why bother? Do you think at some point a parent or child will say oh you’re a bit older now and while you’ve always had a RAP we aren’t sure if you need it now so let’s make the day a bit more rubbish by queuing much much longer and see how it goes. Small children especially are always crap at queuing. And for those with ND it will often remain harder for longer. But with practice for lots of them it will become easier and more manageable. But if you never even try how will they know? A friend of mine has an autistic son. What he can deal with now at 17 is vastly different to what he could at 5. He absolutely needed a RAP at 5. He was still non verbal at 5 and didn’t even understand what a queue was. At 17 he can queue fine. He does however moan constantly about it and asks why he can’t skip the queues anymore. But his mum won’t let him because he CAN do it fine. He just doesn’t want to. Because who does??

There definitely much more than can do. It is hard to justify currently why they have to wait for hours to have a go but they see the same sunflower kids running back round to the entrance to have multiple rides whilst they stand and wait to have run. Maybe they could limit the fast passes to one per ride per day.

The comments here are so depressing. I have an autistic and anxious child. We went to legoland for the first time when he was 7y - I didn’t dare take him when he was younger as he found crowds overwhelming and simply couldn’t wait in queues, but we thought he might be ready now.

We went over Christmas when it was relatively quiet. We used RAP on a Duplo ride twice. We waited for an underwater ride which he managed until we got to the front and he then he panicked and couldn’t go in so we left it. We used RAP for a Wild West ride but at the last minute he didn’t want to so we watched his dad on it. We just missed the train and he had a meltdown. We used RAP for a Ninjago ride that was actually fine.

So in total he went on the Duplo ride twice and the NinjaGo ride once. His Dad went on one extra ride and I didn’t go on anything. Expensive but successful day and this was actually more than I hoped for. I thought we could go again one day but i guess not.

For what it’s worth anxiety buildup and triggers are complex. He is noise sensitive some noises are ok, especially if outdoors or he fees in control of it or he is very motivated. And it changes as he gets older. It’s hard to predict and plan for - I’m always planning for worst case scenarios. Something things are a roaring success like Legoland and others should in theory be fine but we have to abandon immediately.

So even as a disabled person you don’t agree that as a civilised society we should do our best to ensure inclusion for disabled people ? You’re happy to live a limited life because you think physical limitations shouldn’t be accommodated where possible ?

I agree that everyone has different needs even if the diagnosis is the same. I have had depression and anxiety for many years but I am fine to get in a queue. My friend’s autistic 8 year old couldn’t be in a queue for longer than a minute. Another friend’s child with adhd finds queuing difficult but is usually able to do it. Yet potentially we are all entitled to the RAP. If AT have found that it costs too much or is too prohibitive to give everyone a RAP who applies for one then that goes beyond what is expected for reasonable adjustments. It sounds like it is the people who are entitled to the RAP have been reporting that the system isn’t working. What is the solution?

Its reality not everyone's individual needs can be catered for

Does this happen in AT? Never observed? Is this other parks or non UK? No view just interested.

It certainly happens at Legoland (a lot). Plenty of kids come straight off the rides and back into the fast pass queue to go again. They often get 2-3 goes whilst everyone else waits. Alton Towers is a bit far for us for me know.

Not saying they can, but that’s no reason not to make the effort wherever possible.

Then they've paid for a fast pass which anyone can have.

If you have a ride access pass (the disability ones this thread is about) you can't do that. You go back into the virtual queue which will be the same time as the actual queue and you can't go back on the ride until the app/timer has counted down to that time.

The thing is abled people won’t benefit from this either - everyone loves to hate on the RAP when their abled and see it as unfair.

the system does not effect abled users what we ever anymore

so Alice has a ride access pass for Legoland - she goes and gets on the dragon rollercoaster rhay has a 45 minute wait - she then can not go on slither ride for 45 minutes. When she can then book her next ride she does do the RAP line where others also are and then they let a couple of RAPs on and then the main line fill up the rest. Which add another 10 minutes / 20 minutes on to their wait sometimes so they actually end up waiting longer than the time line time. If this is removed it won’t make a difference to the normal line because all these people will be in that line so it will just be that line is longer and everyone is coming from the same one.

instant access hasn’t been around for a very long time !

The only ones that actually get better access and faster times to rides are those who can afford it - so that’s the 2 term system not disabled VS abled.