Really need some URGENT ‘practical’ and ‘next steps’ type advice for a (nearly diagnosed) SEND child.

[Sophieishilarious]

Really need some URGENT ‘practical’ and ‘next steps’ type advice for a (nearly diagnosed) SEND child.

Waiting for possible SEN diagnosis. Sorry this is essentially a long story but will try and keep this as clear as possible with bullets below :

• 6 year old DC in a single sex and low tolerance school.
• We’ve been called in numerous times to school.
• In recent 2 months a COMPLETELY different child. I mean a COMPLETELY different child to the child we have known for 6 years. We did have a very busy and happy family life. Now we spend all our time trying to manage what feels like at times an utterly feral child not doing the things we used to do. (throws things at us, hits us, can kick us in last few months - NEVER used to be like this.)
• In terms of life any life changes - has a baby brother who is 7 months old.
• *Issue* is DC is getting very angry and hitting in the playground - majorly emotionally dysregulated. Not intended malice to people, but DC is very reactive and if something doesn’t go the way DC wants, that child will get hit or sometimes kicked. DC will say sorry (and seemingly mean it) but when questioned why DC’s hit someone it’s ‘I don’t know.’ Just mortifying as parents am sure you can imagine. DC has a huge sense of injustice, if DC is wronged. DC’s card is now heavily marked by teachers, parents and pupils alike. They do watch DC in playground but can’t see if things will kick off quick enough sometimes and want to take DC out of some playtimes and get DC to play cards?!! They also have a behaviour chart for DC where they mark to us how DC’s day has been so we can see - it’s put in DC’s book bag.
• DC is mainly very happy, bright, engaging, looks you in the face. Is not ‘obsessed’ with anything at all but the key issue is VERY quick to anger, often like the flick of a switch out of nowhere. But with adult help, sometimes DC’s own, can revert back to DC normal happy, smiley self. In classroom when engaged (which is seemingly 80/90% of the time) does very well academically and is pretty smart. BUT he can be a nuisance to the teacher, apparently ‘blurts’ out a lot…children’s names and occasionally mild rude words (very childlike and mild words)
• Basically DC HUGE has big lack of impulse control and emotional dysregulation issues.
• We have just had a private appt for possible ADHD/ASD diagnosis but consultant does not want to diagnose at this stage - said come back in 6 months to see him again. (Sigh…)
• I’m talking to our local council’s mental health team to see if they can offer us any practical advice/support as we need something for the ‘NOW’ at home.

THE ISSUES….. school obviously can’t keep having these hitting issues in the playground and annoyance in the classroom. I have teacher friends who I have asked about this, DC’s classroom behaviour to them seems very low level compared to what my friends deal with in their schools (note our school is particularly low tolerance)
We as parents are hugely isolated. Our DC is hugely isolated. Teachers tell us DC’s friends are very wary of him. We need to socialise DC as we spends all out of school time with us atm and crucially help and support DC NOW not in X months time, at the next consultant appointment.

ANYONE RECOGNISE THIS BEHAVIOUR? I feel like it’s quite a nuanced personality here….when he is great DC is model child, but when ‘bad’ is a wild uncontrollable animal we just don’t recognise anymore. Does this seem ADHD? ASD? Something else? Is there any way this could be a reaction to a new baby brother in the house who is a bit of a velcro baby? What practical help can I source here and now to help us try and regulate DC’s flick of a switch moods. We are driving ourselves mad trying to navigate this new personality and behaviour and desperately want our happy DC back - who we had only 3 months ago :(

My suggestions would be to see if you can access paediatric occupational therapy (NHS or private) and to see if there is a Behaviour support hub for your area- these can be peer support groups which would certainly help your feelings of isolation.
It sounds like a really tough time for you.
My area also has autism support groups that do not require you to have a child with an official diagnosis, and they can be great sources of support.
In terms of emotional regulation, there are various children's story books which help to give names to feelings, so see what you can find. Children also learn well from what they see modelled, so name your own feelings and model the behaviour you want to see. "I'm feeling a bit grumpy so I'm just going to sit quietly and do xyz to calm myself down/ I'm sorry I got cross" etc

My son is diagnosed AuDHD and much of what you’re describing is very like him. He’s also very reactive, tries to control all games, gets very upset when other children do or say things he doesn’t like, can’t control himself with speaking out in class, struggles with turn taking, is a terrible loser. And if all these things go wrong then he lashes out. His first school wouldn’t take it and we’ve moved him. In terms of what we’ve done: gone private for all the assessments and diagnoses because we did not have time to wait; worked hard on transitions so we always have warning; adjusted our expectations about the scope of our life; developed a very very solid routine so life is predictable; cut down sugar and processed food; started on ADHD meds which have made a massive difference; used screen time as a reward. I recommend The Explosive Child.
I think part of it could definitely be down to a new baby. Can you carve out time for him with you each day?

Sounds like they're in wrong sort of school.

Is this a private school? I'm assuming so, based on it being single sex at primary.

If so, just get him out of there before they manage him out and cause him (and you) untold stress and trauma in the process.

@tatyr thank you so much for your advice, I'm going to look into all your points. really appreciate you took the time to write this x

@FlappingAboutTheFuture have you endured this? I'm so sorry if you have. I have a friend who had a child ' managed out' of their school, it was so awful for their child and them. Yes its an independent school. They are saying all the 'we want to support' DC comments but I am week by week disbelieving them. Everything is being 'noted' re his dysregulated incidents and I am very worried about DC's mental health.

@ClariceStarlingsDuffleCoat well yes, we have had our doubts and still do.... ultimately my priority this minute is helping DC at home with strategies...the school situ will ultiamtely, be sorted.

Sounds like PANDAS due to the sudden change in behaviour. Any illnesses before the behaviour change?

@readingmakesmehappy honestly this is SUCH a good response, just read it again. Thank you, because you post on here to get honest, practical advice...and you are a gem! Much appreciated x

@Covidwoes thanks very much for responding. Not that I know of. I had seen this idea on another thread previously but I have requested a blood test for DC next week. So appreciate your thought here. x

Yeah my 11 year old dd has always presented as the old school naughty Adhd boy. Fighting biting attacking don’t talk till was 6 bed wetted till 10. Enuresis clinic many many speech appointments. Moved school in y1 on her last day she blacked someone’s eye smashed someone’s iPad etc etc took ages for her nhs adhd assessment and my god she’s a different kid. very very hyper when I miss a tablet on a weekend on occasion but mediated she’s well behaved not disregulated. Obvs issues every now and again but she was mediated in y4 due to length of time it took. We had issues though from around aged 3: she’s the kids kids were scared of and never backed down from a fight. Since she was happy fighting her sister whose 6 years ur older. The conflict the stress the anxiety of talking to other parents and teachers is awful.
I remember saying ever morning
kind hands feet and mouth today and made her say it before school.
currently on Elvanse and melatonin oh and a bed wetting meds but haven’t needed them in a while

I would be hesitant to think this is ADHD if you genuinely had no signs of it until 2 months ago. I'd be more inclined to think that a combination of the upheaval of having a new sibling, and the demand of being in year 1? of his school has caused emotional dysregulation. Even in subtle ADHD there are often some signs in early, early childhood. Similarly, I'd expect you to say 'well he's always been x, y, z....' if he had ASD - I'm not saying that the signs are always absolutely obvious, but usually parents say 'looking back I did think this was a bit odd...' What you're describing is a perfectly 'normal' child that has suddenly changed.

One thing to think about - has he been ill at all in the last few months? Was the behaviour change very sudden and straight after an illness, at all?

You’re so welcome. Our first school was an independent one too. They made it clear to us, a week after we shared the ASD diagnosis with them, that he would end up being expelled if he stayed there. It got very formal very fast with its teaching and was very rigid in its expectations of very young children. I wish we’d never heard of the place and still tense up when I drive past it. Moving has been v hard, and larger classes in state primary are hard bc of the greater noise, but the approach has been so much more welcoming and understanding and inclusive whereas at the private one it was v clear he was seen as a problem. The only thing I wish that he still had was access to lots of different styles of sport and huge grounds.

Yes, I've been through this (though in 2 consecutive state schools, not a private school) with my youngest child. Fortunately, he is now thriving in a specialist school, but it took nearly 10 years to get here after his terrible experiences in schools that wouldn't/couldn't meet his needs.

Have a look at the PDA society org uk website it has some good helpful guides on communicating with a child like this. Your seeing classic “coke bottle” effect too. So lots of little things build & build up during the day, it could be school uniform too itchy, then journey to school too noisy, then made to sit too still with no wiggling, then friend is too close at a table, to the pen is too tricky to hold..this goes on and on stacking irritation on top of another until the child can’t cope and explodes. This is where “reasonable adjustments” come in to reduce the sensory issues causing overwhelm in the environment and then they can cope better. I have a now diagnosed ASD at age 10, & adhd at 14 child who very academic but could not cope in MS school past age 10. We had no choice but to change the environment they were in to reduce the sensory overload and now they manage much better learning, socialising and behaviour is much improved.

Did anything happen 3 months ago? Did you stay the night somewhere different or go on a walk where he could have got bitten by a tick?

I know this might sound random but I would also go for a hearing and vision test. It’s something I would advise my parents as a soon as they tell me something is wrong.

It’s how suddenly his behaviour has changed that is quite perplexing to me. So probably while you are doing some diagnostic things I would get a blood test too to look for inflammation. As something is triggering his fight/flight response.

Hi. I'm going to suggest you get him assessed by a Speech and Language therapist. You need a good paediatric specialist - if you are at an independent school it is very unlikely that they will offer this for free but they might be able to recommend someone. Otherwise, I suggest you contact SOS!SEN for advice.

Responding "I don't know" is a possible SALT issue. So are the problems with friends, misbehaving in the classroom.

A SALT assessment is likely to give you the most useful pointers most quickly.

SALT isn't just about how you talk. It also covers what you understand, social skills, memory....it often crosses over with autism and adhd and would be really useful info for the paediatrician.

But tbh I think it would also be worth starting to look at state schools. Independent schools are not geared up for significant additional needs. Mainstream schools are. And I would look for biggish schools with lots of resources, not a small up market school with relatively low resources. Been there!!

@FlappingAboutTheFuture I'm so happy to read your DC is thriving. Lovely to read and very well done to you!

@Sweetbeansandmochi thank you very much. Nothing I can think of. I did however take DC for an eyesight test, all OK there - because DC has just developed a very hard blinking in the last month...optician said to go and see GP if concerned...

@Lougle good points. I had forgotten in nursery, DC had occasionally 'hit out' at children 'for no reason' - we put this down to just being 2/3/4 - but if feels like all of sudden it's caught up with us again, but this time coupled with the behaviours in my original post. I do think there could be an element where the school is making things harder for DC.... DC's school really is particularly rigid. They have managed children out before.... I feel very uncomfortable about their approach... I've also enlisted a psychologist to speak to next week...

I think what's so hard about all of this is - there really is no one stop shop - everything has such long waiting times, and often you need a specialist perhaps in X and Y and they dont necessarily go together....my GP told me to see a community peaditrician initially but I think we'll be on the waiting lists for another 10 years..... what a terribly broken system for everyone....!

@Arran2024 great thought thank you will look into this. Appreciate your thoughts. Our DC is particularly articulate however fully understand that young children still can't fully articulate how they feel - which is what I think we are facing. Had not thought about a SALT, thank you!

I was also going to recommend reading The Explosive Child - some really great strategies in there. Sounds like there is a lot of overwhelm, with loads of change to process with a new sibling plus a school environment that isn’t brilliantly attuned to supporting emotional regulation. Whether or not there is neurodivergence too, I think the main thing to focus on is regulating emotions gently at the time with your child, then revisiting with them later when calm to look at what happened (might also be useful to keep notes of trigger, what happened, and how it resolved). Then in calmer moments try and unpick some of the underlying challenges (the book has some great techniques for that).

I would also try and get some really good routines limiting screen time and sugar (not using this in a punitive way - just setting healthy patterns) and getting good exercise / time outside where you can.

I recognise that limiting older sibling screen time when you have a new baby might not actually be that possible! Make sure you are gentle with yourself too and good luck.

My daughter was diagnosed with a clinical speech and language disorder aged 9 - we had no idea. We only had her assessed because I was advised to do it as part of our appeal after she was turned down for an ehc plan.

Her problems were mainly with receptive language ie understanding what was said to her. She would only remember the last fragment for example. Most of the time she had no clue what she was supposed to be doing.

She sounded fine to me and she was very chatty, but turned out her syntax and vocabulary were of a younger child.

But the biggie was in the social skills area. Disaster. Bossy, policeman of the school, telling on other children, wanting others to play her games and not willing to play theirs, telling lies....

Saying "I don't know" can show problems with memory, but also processing the words needed to form the sentences required.

It was a huge eye opener.