Who has right of way?

[Confuseddriver]

Housing estate with Abbey Road being the main estate road. Abbey Road has a sharp bend where you can either continue on Abbey Road or turn into Bishop Drive. There are no road markings but there are two road signs next to each other one saying Abbey Road the other Bishop Drive.

Diagram attached but may take time to upload.

Car A is driving along Abbey Road and bears to the right to continue on Abbey Road. Car B on Abbey Road is turning right into Bishop Drive. The driver of Car B had to stop sharply to allow Car A to continue on Abbey Road. Driver of Car B was not happy and insists they have right of way because you give way to the right.

Who has right of way when there are no road markings?

So proceed with caution and give way to the right.

Quite a few questions

• Residential Roads absolutely no white road markings. Yellow Lines in some places.
• The estate has no speed signs but does have street lamps so 30mph. Although the nature of the road means no one goes that fast.
• Bishops Drive is a side road, turning off Abbey Road.
• I would prefer not to post a satellite image as it’s identifying.
• Car B would have seen the road signs as they are positioned to make it clear Abbey Road is left and Bishop Drive is right.

I agree with pp it’s not safe and the number of times I have seen cars shoot in and out of Bishop Drive with no intention of stopping I am amazed there has not been a crash.

I'd be contacting the council to ask for road markings to be painted. This is an accident waiting to happen.

I agree. I will write and ask for road markings.

If Abbey Road was straight then it would be absolutely clear Car A was driving straight ahead on the same road.

Thank you everyone.

I understand rule 146 to be about unmarked crossroads where there is no 'main road'. This is an unmarked junction but it's a side road coming off a main road, and car B is turning right, so you would give way to oncoming traffic (car A). However, I'd be asking the council for a 20 mile limit as well as road markings, I think, if I lived on the estate.

The trouble is that according to all laws of physical reality, car b isn't turning right - she's driving in a straight line. That straight line might have one or more different street names noted on it but it's still a straight line.

So is there no lines in the centre of the road either? That's what I would be looking at to judge.

A as it is continuing along Abbey Rd. B is turning right onto Bishop Drive. It's the sort of road where you'd always be ready to stop but A shouldn't have needed to as they were just driving down the road.

Exactly, lots of streets change names mid-way through, it doesn't mean they have a junction on them.

Are both roads exactly the same width, same surface etc? If so, and there's no indication of which road is the major road with the other being a turning off it, then I'd say B has right of way. They are going pretty much straight on, whereas car A is taking a sharp right-hand bend.

I'd give way to the vehicle on the right anyway.

i'd be careful when driving there as i would think it's unclear who has priority there if it's unmarked, unless you are staring at the street name signs i suppose. technically A can go but if i was car A, i would wait and be careful because it "looks like" i'm turning right, i wouldn't want to get in an accident so would probably just let car B go and then turn

I know of junctions like this where I live. I bet in real-life it is clear that the main road (Abbey Road) bends to the left but it would be sensible for the council to put give-way lines at the end of Bishop Drive. I bet it’s also obvious that Bishop Drive is more minor (the road name tells you this as a “Drive” is a smaller thoroughfare than a “Road”).

So Car A clearly has right of way.

Car B should also know they are on Abbey Road and the street sign tells them they are turning off onto a different road. Car B is crossing traffic lanes even if there are no markings!

It would be most wise to slow down and practice defensive driving by doing as poster 1 said though…

No white lines any where. If there were down the centre of the road it would be down Abbey Road.

Abbey Road is the road that goes from the start of the estate right the way to the cul-de-sac at the end. It is very much a road that winds its way through the estate with a sharp left turn and a sharp right turn. All the other roads on the estate can only be accessed via Abbey Road.

@VoiceFromThePit I agree give way lines across Bishop Drive would help.

Alternatively a mini roundabout. In this scenario it would make it clear B has the priority.

Car A as it stays on the same road. However, I would be very cautious being in car A as car B might not give way. So would proceed very cautiously, a bit like when trying to cross a zebra crossing - don't assume you have right of way!

I live near a very similar junction, but it has painted white lines clearly showing A Road is the main road and B Road is a turn.
It makes no difference. Car B usually drives straight across in front of Car A.

It’s because people have different opinions from you.

Nice goalpost move 😂

Well that's daft, it's an accident waiting to happen. I'd be very cautious every time I go through as even if you have right of way no one wants to be dealing with accidents/insurance because another person thinks they have right of way and smashes into you. I'd flag it to the council and ask for markings.

As someone who who failed there test on an unmarked junction
i can assure you no one has the right to of way or has to give priority/give way to any traffic in any direction

giving way to traffic on the right isn’t relevant

Agree

I agree that the first reply nailed it but as a side note, why are so many estates like this now, just decide which is minor road and paint it as a give way.

Nobody has right of way at an unmarked junction. The road names are neither here nor there and don’t determine what constitutes the same road (how could they? As pp says roads sometimes change names part way along, and name signs would have to be a lot more obvious if drivers were expected to use them in determining right of way).

Lack of markings is often deliberate in residential estates- the idea is that no one has right of way so everyone has to drive slowly and cautiously. Obviously doesn’t work if people just decide they should right of way and put their foot down 😂

Just because roads have the same name doesn't mean they're the same roads. Just like when a road changes its name halfway along, it;s still the same road with a different name. You need to consider the structure and size of the roads and the road markings. Round here, when the roads are fairly similar and there's a definite priority, it's always marked on the roads. Otherwise it's up to everyone to negotiate sensibly.

Yeah. People suggesting lines as a magic solution don't understand how many drivers actually behave.

(Though standard T-junction give way markings might be more effective.)