Big Lick (horse riding)

[Soubriquet]

I’m not a rider but I do enjoy watching horses. Yesterday, I saw a post talking about big lick. What it was, and why it was cruel, and yes it’s obviously extremely cruel. (I’ll post below exactly what it is)

What I want to know is, for you horse experts, why/how did it come to exist in the first place?

A YouTube video makes the way the horse is walking ridiculously stupid, plus on top of that, the amount of pain the horse goes through to get there is awful. So why? I mean horses are not a cheap commodity, so why put them through this

(Soring involves the intentional infliction of pain to a horse's legs or hooves in order to force the horse to perform an artificial, exaggerated gait. Caustic chemicals—blistering agents like mustard oil, diesel fuel and kerosene—are applied to the horse's limbs, causing extreme pain and suffering.
A particularly egregious form of soring, known as pressure shoeing, involves cutting a horse's hoof almost to the quick and tightly nailing on a shoe or standing a horse for hours with the sensitive part of his soles on a block or other raised object. This causes excruciating pressure and pain whenever the horse puts weight on the hoof.
Soring has been a common and widespread practice in the Tennessee Walking Horse show industry for decades. Today, judges continue to reward the artificial "Big Lick" gait, thus encouraging participants to sore their horses and allowing the cruel practice to persist.

The life of a sored horse is filled with fear and pain. While being sored, a horse can be left in their stall for days at a time, their legs covered in caustic chemicals and plastic wrap to "cook" the chemicals deep into his flesh. In training barns where soring takes place, it is common to see horses lying down in their stalls, moaning in pain.
Whenever the horses are ridden, in training or competition, trainers put chains around the horse's sored ankles. As the horse travels, the chains slide up and down, further irritating the areas already made painful by soring.
Instead of wearing regular horseshoes, the feet of Big Lick or "performance"-gaited show horses are fitted with tall, heavy stacks of pads to accentuate their gait. These "stacks" force the horses to stand at an unnatural angle, much like wearing high heel, platform shoes all day, every day. Foreign objects are often inserted between the horse's hoof and these stacks, adding to the horse's suffering.
Performance horses aren't allowed to go outside to graze and play with other horses. Except when being trained or shown, these horses spend all of their time confined to stalls.)

I’m a horse person although no expert. Big lick is a disgraceful abomination. I cannot understand why it’s allowed. I suppose it developed as a tradition/ fashion that people have hung on to. I imagine the participants value winning competitions above all else.
. I honestly cannot fathom how they can claim to care for horses while torturing them.
I’d be interested in how the ‘regular ‘ horse community in those places view it- Vets, farriers etc!

Disgusting, and thankfully not part of the UK equine scene to my knowledge.

It's never been something that's happened in UK equestrian culture & I don't think there's anything quite as extreme or cruel that's equivalent in the UK.

How we see horses has changed hugely. Once they were essential equipment for wars, farming and transport so we're treated almost like tanks, cars & tractors rather than sentient beings. That explains some of the historic horrific practices that thankfully now are being left in the past & we recognize horses for being sensitive, gentle sentient beings.

There was a book written a few years ago called 'Farewell the horse' or something similar (I can't remember the author' but it explained the changing use of horses from valuable commodity & necessity through to current pet/companion & how that has changed how we treat them.

I think there's a lot more within equestrianism that should be consigned to the history books - High level competition - dressage, jumping, racing & Police horses being the most obvious ones.

Yes I noticed it seems to be an American thing, specific to Tennessee but still it’s really fucked up.

I was watching a video where a young girl was jumping, she realised her pony was injured after hitting a pole and instead of forcing her horse to continue, she immediately got off her horse and walked him out of the arena. She chose her horses health over a rosette.

and then you have sick people like those, who are deliberately torturing their horses for a competition. It just beggars belief

@Serencwtch
I think there's a lot more within equestrianism that should be consigned to the history books - High level competition - dressage, jumping, racing & Police horses being the most obvious ones.

I agree. I worked in top-level showjumping for a while (sports broadcasting) and it radicalised me. People who are born and raised in equestrian can't see how mad, and cruel, it is. They repeat their mantra that the horses wouldn't do it if they didn't want to, ignoring that every horse in the first place needs to be broken to accept being ridden.

You might as well say that no woman can be in an abusive relationship, because if she didn't want to be there she'd leave. We all know that's not true, and that's human beings, with agency and theory of mind. Horses are fundamentally fairly dumb herd animals, and will put up with a lot of cruelty, all so some humans can have a bit of a thrill.

The tackroom people will flame me now, and post reams of whataboutery, but none of them will have a reasonable argument for why it's okay to ride around on the back of an animal for pleasure (or have them pull carriages and whatnot). By all means keep horses and ponies as pets, let them run around to their heart's content, but why do you need to be on top of them?

Disgusting and SO cruel 🤬 apparently when the horses are stabled at night you can hear them moaning in pain all night. Abomination as others have called it...tg it doesn't go on in the UK!

Riding doesn't have to be cruel. I use mainly R+ (positive reinforcement) training starting on the ground but also liberty & ridden liberty.

You would be surprised how intelligent horses are & how much they will do if they are given the choice.

An owner on my yard had a horse who needed sedation & twitching to be clipped. We taught him 'green button' where he could turn the clippers on/off himself by nudging a fist which was then rewarded using clicker. He always had a hay net to choose rather than being clipped but he 'chose' to be clipped by the end.

Mine are ridden using R+ so they choose to come to the mounting block & are allowed to stop when they want.

I worked on racing yards but also on a top show jumping yard so I can see how you are completely soured to the whole idea of riding but there is a completely different side I promise.

But in the end you're only riding for your own pleasure, on an animal you've "broken" and trained to accept it. Why not just let the horses run around without a person on their back? The whole thing is so undignified, riding around on the back of an animal. If you were riding other humans you'd be seen as either a maniac or a pervert, however gentle it was.

I don't know anything about TWH but one of the sickest things I saw was a video of a rodeo (in the USA ) 4/5 groups of men ( High Security Prisoners ) who were each assigned an unbroken horse .
Without being too graphic they had to saddle,bridle and immobilise their horse on the ground on its side .Every part of the horse had to touch the floor
In the quickest time .
These men were murderers, rapists, arsonists . They cared not how they did this .
These poor animals were literally "broken" in spirit , terrified .
But for a "game" disposable ..
Disgusting

Ugh, I wish I hadn't read this thread 😞

What is the point of that? I can understand prison programmes working with animals where, for example, the prisoner gets to train a dog and build trust. Done right that can be rehabilitative,.building confidence and developing empathy. Though even then there have been issues were "support dogs" brought into prisons each day found the environment stressful. But I can't see how the very aggressive rodeo techniques you describe help with rehabilitation in any way.

The shoeing sounds akin to foot binding (for girls/women) which thankfully now is illegal to give them an artificially deformed tiny foot and a trip trip tiptoe gait .

Those poor animals , how they are forced to suffer and walk for this "look"

I found some YouTube videos on Big Lick/TWH , I will look later then wish I hadn't .

Nothing to do with rehab , all in the name of entertainment . For all but the horses .

ETA
And them proving their strength over a wild animal .

There really were no restrictions on how they did this .
And if you know horses you know they are most vulnerable on their side .

Big lick is disgusting. As is dressage. Until riders can get the same results in a headcollar I will continue to hold the view that it’s inhumane. Horses tolerate so much. It’s heartbreaking. How the hell Charlotte Dujardin has managed to salvage her career baffles me.

This is so cruel and unnecessary. Thanks for posting this thread as its not something Ive ever encountered before.

Most of us have to work for a living. I’d love to be able to run around free too, with someone looking after me but I can’t. Horses get full food and board and vetinary care. Not a bad deal for being ridden occasionally.

Honestly when I made my posts in this thread I thought I knew exactly which counter-arguments I'd get, but "domestic animals are lazy scroungers" was genuinely unexpected.

I can't tell if this is satire, or a solid case for riding humans for sport and leisure.

Chapeau.

I had never heard of it before either so yeah was quite shocked.

I don’t agree with the poster saying horses should never be ridden though. Sure they are “broken in” but if a horse doesn’t want to do something, they won’t. Good reputable owners won’t force a horse to do something they don’t want to do but encourage them to try.

I’ve seen videos where horses are practicing their own dressage gaits. On their own. In their paddock with no motivation

Horses need exercised, they need stimulation. Not just to be stood in a field. Horses don’t have the land anymore to move around and exercise themselves.

This whole thread is about horses being made to do things they don't want to do. By your logic, the big lick horses are fine with their treatment, because they don't refuse to perform.

The entire joy of horse riding is rooted in the feeling of controlling a huge beast that in theory could overpower a human. Breaking is the first, essential step along the training path, which would be unnecessary if they wanted to be ridden. You just dismiss that and go along with the delusion that after breaking, everything a horse does is by choice? All you've done is trained them to obey and put up with it.

Of course they can be happy, and treated kindly, within the only world they know, but there were kind slave owners too - doesn't make it right, or dignified. Horses aren't given the choice at birth of living a life of grazing, roaming and running around freely with other horses all day, or being broken, stabled and ridden.

Humans can be trained to obey and put up with all kinds - the evidence is all over mumsnet. If you can train a human, you can easily train a horse. Go on the relationships board and tell the women in abusive marriages that they aren't doing anything they don't want to do.

This is a circular argument, domestic horses aren't breeding by themselves. And who said anything about them standing in a field? Exercise them by all means - why do you need to be sitting on their backs?

Get out of the circle - what do you need horses for, in this day and age?

Have a look at Featherlight Horsemanship on socials. Horses can absolutely do dressage and enjoy it without harsh tack, abusive training or being asked to work in unnatural positions.