Thread 41 Starmer : "Alban Arthan" the returning of the light

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5461238-thread-40-starmer-prettig-kerstfeest-nollaig-shona-hyvaa-joulua-nadolig-llawen-god-jul-feliz-navidad-bouan-noue-nollaig-chridheil?page=40

Welcome to 2026 for political discussion, general chat and taxes in kind.

What’s the matter with Davey at the moment? His comment about Starmer’s policy on US being ‘in tatters’ is weird. Then he says it’s time for Starmer to stand up to him, when that is, in fact, what he’s done. Why so critical? Even Badenoch managed not to make it party political. He and Polanski seem to be doing their best to put everyone off at the moment.

The joint statement just published by European leaders reads like something they would say to Russia about Ukraine: "we stand ready to engage in a dialogue based on the principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity that we stand firmly behind." https://www.government.se/statements/2026/01/statement-by-denmark-finland-france-germany-the-netherlands-norway-sweden-and-the-united-kingdom/

Unless Congress stop him, these Tariffs will happen and the EU/UK will have to retaliate.
If i had my way, we'd start with closing down US bases, no point having them here, Trump will never ever come to Europe's aid, so they have no advantage to us.
On the other hand, the US needs them.

I do see what Davey is on about (though perhaps better to keep quiet right now) Starmer decided to suck up to Trump eg Royal visit... Trump took that and now sees the UK as just another v weak country in Europe.
Note how no Southern European country inc in Tariffs, not even Italy.... seeking to split the EU.

I'm sure we have all told her children "You have to stand up to a bully or they'll just keep bullying you"

That's the formal, grown up, diplomatic way of saying "behave yourself, Mangolini".

Re southern European countries, I think they haven't deployed any military personnel to Greenland.

I think all the talk of Trump as "transactional" is part of it. It's talking about him like he is a Mafia don running a protection racket. Eg he shakes down Qatar for a gold plane and they give it to him in exchange for protection. In reality, when the actual mafia run protection rackets they don't tend to turn round and firebomb the businesses that have reliably paid out to them. Not because deep down they are honourable people who keep their word out of respect for their mums. But because part of running a protection rackets is consistency.

Trump isn't capable of keeping his word. So Qatar gives him a gold plane and gets bombed anyway. Europe put a lot of effort into playing nice (the EU gave up a lot in its recent negotiations.with Trump for the sake of stability) but everything gets changed on a whim anyway.

I think it's completely natural for them to have spent the first year trying to assign some understandable (mafia) logic to Trump's actions. Because how else do you deal with him. But eventually he made an offer they have to refuse.

If it really is not all EU member states, then you just import everything via those countries from the US. Belgians will be busy.

I thought tariffs had to apply equally to all EU states? Which is partly why we only got a lower one.

Surely if he's trying to tariff some EU states all they need to do is ship via one he isn't trying to tariff. PO Box type office in Italy/Spain to invoice/ship via Belgium/Poland or wherever and done. I'm sure there are entrepreneurial brains that have thought up schemes already.

There isn't a US-EU treaty that mandates that. Remember the EU has been able to avoid that for decades (which is why it has to go). The US can treat each EU country individually if it likes.

However under it's terms the EU can retaliate as a whole. So tariffs on an individual country could be legally countered with tariffs on the US as a whole.

Obviously none of this applies to the UK. We are on our own.

E2A: Remember that tariffs are ultimately paid by the end customer. So Trump is simply taxing Americans to punish the world.

Referring to diplomacy as ‘sucking up’ is a bit odd. It’s a difficult relationship and it was a good idea to try to keep him on side as long as possible. It’s past that point now, but it doesn’t mean his approach is ‘in tatters’. I expect he knew all along it would run out of road eventually. It was pretty obvious once Trump showed exactly how peculiar his governing style was going to be this time.

I'm all for diplomacy & i understand what you re say but i think and said so at the time, the Royal visit was a step too far, surely we have still have some standards?

Unfortunately, the more you give, the more Trump takes.... look at the people he admires ? Putin, Xi... various very hardline former US Presidents - he doesn't think much of people who prefer diplomacy.

Another example is Machado giving up her Peace Prize.... he still wont back her... did it really mean so little to her?

Both acts were demeaning.

Thank you - I just didn’t know, or think it through! I just assumed after we got the different one - due to being on our own.
I do know tariffs hurt his own - hoping one day ‘his own’ will notice that too!

John Bolton seems to think the wider Republican Party is waking up to the fact Trump is extremely damaging to both themselves and the USA.

I think the EU should respond in other ways than Tariffs, at least at first, though perhaps a lesson from China, they retaliated with v high tariffs of their own, Trump backed down
But this time its not about trade, its about land.

Sorry, but yeah, yeah yeah. Whatever.

I agree. Nobody can pretend that efforts weren’t made.
Suspect that they knew the inevitable outcome given Trump’s history (and the influence of Stephen Miller etc).

Not sure which thread to post on

https://kyivindependent.com/russia-welcomes-trumps-tariffs-on-nato-allies-over-greenland/

Not surprised that Putin is delighted.
The fracturing of NATO will be of enormous satisfaction.

the Royal visit was a step too far,

It was a step too soon. It should have been held back (the King’s cancer would have been a great excuse) until towards the end of his term. It would have been an incentive to him to play nicely.

I think this is very much Putins last gamble.

A few people have noted now that Trump has basically been shown to be unable to take Greenland by force. Hence his tariff tantrum. He's done that classic late stage dictator thing of starting to give orders that are not being followed.

In the real world, has any poster here heard anyone in real life (not via "social" media) express anything other than antipathy to Trump over this ? No one I know is remotely saying "maybe he's right". (Not even Farage, it seems).

I thought at the time that it was done too soon. I could see why they wanted to do it even though the idea repulsed me. It was an attempt to play to his massive ego but I had hoped that they would keep kicking it down the road and use it as a carrot.

I still think it was done for the right reasons just because of his character and I also believe that they can look on it as something they tried, rather than just caving in at the very start.

I completely agree. It clearly meant a lot to Trump but it was meaningless to anyone else. Like giving a toddler a toy to distract them.

Chamberlains giving in to Hitler at Munich bought the UK precious months to complete our secret air defences (not just radar) and ramp up production.

I still think it was done for the right reasons j

I recently read a quote I am amazed I hadn't squirrelled away years ago.

"Explain your decisions, not your reasons" ....

Don't worry, the BBC still managed to get his name in the front page

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gv9gyxgjjo