What Is The Point Of banks?

[PillowRice]

I've been thinking for a while that banks don't want human customers. The latest in the rage inducing and frankly astounding WTFery is that my frail little old mum, who is nearly 90, trundled all the way to her bank's head office today to transfer some money and was, eventually, told they wouldn't do it.

She had received a rather scrappy looking letter a few weeks ago purporting to be from a woman saying if she needed any help she should phone the mobile number given. It could have been sent by anyone with a printer and I wasn't convinced it was genuine so I suggested the next time she went into the bank to check with them.

After a good 20 minute wait (during which the bouncer asked her what she wanted to do and how much she wanted to transfer - why does he need to know that?) she was eventually taken to a booth and thought she'd get the letter checked first. The teller glanced at it and said it was legitimate. Then she asked what mum wanted to do today and when she said to transfer money the teller said no. I don't know whether mum asked why but she wasn't given a reason even if she did.

WTF is the point of being a head office if you don't do basic banking?

Where did I say everyone was like me? Are people no longer allowed to give their observations without half a dozen caveats first? 🙈

I use the post office to do my banking, as it happens. The nearest high street bank is a 45 minute drive away so it may as well not exist for all the use it is.

Probably because they closed all other banks near her.

I never go into my bank, I have no need. My cc was scammed and I had the money back within 2 days, they were amazing - did it all for me and they were the ones that flagged the fraud. People say - oh old people can't bank on line - well I am 66 and have been doing it for years, but then I still work full time with computers everyday. We are not all doddery old useless articles that people seem to think we are.

The bouncer is probably a customer advisor -someone who is sometimes on the counter and sometimes assisting in the banking hall. Unless she actually had gone to the bank's administrative headquarters, which would be a very unusual thing to do when she needed branch service.

Can she set up phone banking? Would save her some trouble if she can have transfers denied from the comfort of her own home.

Our local post office is great. The shop is open 7-10, every day and they’ll do PO transactions 7 days a week, too, 7am til 9pm

I use the post office to do my banking, as it happens.The nearest high street bank is a 45 minute drive away so it may as well not exist for all the use it is.

@vanillalattes the banks local to me have all closed and there's now a banking hub, which is run by the Post Office. My bank is the only bank, so far, that has stopped accepting cheques in the Post Offices and banking hubs so anyone who needs to bank a cheque either has to travel to do so or find another way.

Can she set up phone banking? Would save her some trouble if she can have transfers denied from the comfort of her own home.

@PhilosophicalCheeseSandwich 😄. She did try to set up telephone banking but the bank refused to set it up for her because she hadn't read the T&Cs. She asked for a copy of the T&Cs, every time the copy of T&Cs didn't arrive. IIRC correctly there were something like nine letters from the bank saying here are the T&Cs and not one of them contained the T&Cs. She went into head office/main branch/bouncer'sdomain/whatever the fuck you want to call it to try and get it sorted in person and they said they would send her a copy. What arrived in the post was a letter saying sorry to hear about your complaint, we have looked into the matter and here's what you need to do if you want to take it any further. We tried one last time to get the T&Cs then we gave up.

@PillowRice yeah this is ridiculous

My mum had exactly the same problem. She can't really go out without me, but we have learned that I have to take her to the bank and then stand aside because otherwise they will simply say to her "can't your daughter do it online?" Which is completely ridiculous for many many reasons.

Last time she tried to transfer money in the bank, she was told all kinds of rubbish by the teller, including that she needed paperwork proof from the person she was trying to pay. She came outside and told me what happened. I went back in with her and the teller confirmed this

So we rang the helpline for the bank - a number I think she was given because she is elderly - and they were very clear that the bank should do it for her. I genuinely think the staff are actually told to encourage people to go away.

So we went back in next day, the same person was on duty, and it took her about an hour to do the simple job that mum wanted her to do. I wonder if the whole thing happened because the bank staff aren't trained to do anything. Part of the hour was taken up because the printer wasn't working, so it wasn't all to do with the teller, not knowing what to do. And of course we didn't need paper proof from the person mum was paying!

Luckily, this time they took us into a room to sit down because mum cannot stand for very long.

Posters who think an elderly person who has had a couple of strokes can do online banking reliably - you really need to think again. Managing numbers on the screen is not going to be so easy after that kind of health problem.

There are many many people who need a human being in a bank to do the job of actually banking. That's not such an unreasonable thing to ask for.

It should come under some kind of disability discrimination, the way that people are being treated.

about the bouncer - they will have needed to ask the question about how much, because it will connect to the person you ultimately get directed to. I think different people will have different levels of authority about what they can do.

@PillowRice cross post

Oh my God, the thing about the Ts and Cs!

I feel like there needs to be a coordinated campaign to get this sorted with banks refusing to bank, but I don't know where to start.

@PillowRice - how many cheques are you dealing with a year? I haven't written one for years and even HMRC now bank transfer to you instead.

@EmeraldRoulette thank you for explaining about the bouncer, that makes sense. And I'm sorry you have had similar experiences with your mum but I'm glad, selfishly, that it's not just us.

I genuinely think the staff are actually told to encourage people to go away.

It certainly comes across like that the more dealings I have and am being told of. It's not good enough. They are using our money to make their money, we should not be considered an inconvenience.

Can somebody explain to me about 'the bouncer'? I've never come across such a person in a bank!

The irony is
It's really fraud for people to be operating bank accounts on behalf of elderly parents

I'm pretty sure a lot of these people aren't actually doing it themselves - their kids are doing it - out of frustration that you can't get anything done at the bank any more

It's really fraud for people to be operating bank accounts on behalf of elderly parents

Only if you do it unofficially. Power of attorney is the magic spell here.

@PillowRicecan you not pay in via the app? Or just do bank transfer instead of cheque?

@Brefugee the fact is that some people, my elderly mum included, can't handle internet banking any more and the bank owes it to these people who don't want to, or can't, use the internet for their banking needs.

Does it though? Online banking has been around for probably 30 years or so. How long should organisations continue to support old technology?

There has to be some responsibility on individuals to keep up with technology changes. Otherwise we will have to continue to support telegrams, fax machines or people with analogue TVs.

Most big branches have someone inside the front door who asks you what you want to do and then directs you to the correct place or person.Not quite the same as a nightclub bouncer.

How long should organisations continue to support old technology?

I remember folk in the 80s who complained about having to phone companies and complained "what about old people who don't have a phone ?"

plus ca change.

Honestly, I agree. Banks are a business like any other - they’re not obliged to do anything to keep people as customers if they don’t want to.

They are using our money to make their money, we should not be considered an inconvenience.

I think it is unlikely that your mum (true for most individuals) has enough in her account to cover the bank for the costs of branch visits.

I can’t understand why people are taking selfies with the bouncer. Is he some kind of famous banking bouncer??!

Not just the elderly having to go in to a bank.
Last year I wanted to set up card accounts for my dc, as they would need them for the bus to school and it just seemed sensible to have cards in shops etc. seeing as that’s how we all pay for stuff. They had savings accounts with this bank already but were book operated.
Dd was 14 and that was fine, we could do hers online. Opened the account, card sent to her at home, lovely.
Ds was 11. His could not be opened online, as under age 13 they aren’t deemed to be able to consent. I couldn’t do it on his behalf online. We had to go into a branch. Local branch is open 3 days a week, so we went on the Saturday as it would be very tight after school when they close at 4.30.
They had a massive queue and no one in who could help me, so we were turned away after waiting almost an hour. I asked when someone would be in to help, it was half term the following week so we came back then. Still no one who could help and the added suggestion that I could do it online. I explained, through gritted teeth, that I could not.
We came back the following week after school, having missed a club to get there in time, and they tried to say they didn’t have time to do it that day. I may have got a little cross and pointed out that my whole family had accounts with them that would be moved if they didn’t sort this out. They already had my ds details, my details, all the fraud checks from the other accounts. I just needed to agree to him having a card. They huffed and puffed, clicked one page on a screen, asked me to sign a form, and that was it.
Had he not needed it for school I would have just given up. I’m still a bit annoyed at myself that I didn’t move the accounts but nowhere else has any better a reputation.

They don’t want to help people. I think that is true of so many ‘service’ roles now sadly.

But power-of-attorney is quite an extensive thing

Many people won't want to give it

If you look at the "elderly parents" section here, a lot of people are having trouble using it. And the banks don't seem to like more than one person operating the account. So it would be forcing someone to hand over complete control of their bank account to someone else. If you can sit with your adult child and oversee the Internet banking they do for you, that's probably a better option.

I think that ultimately banks will start charging for doing face-to-face service.

He wears a kilt .

Plenty of providers have better reputations than legacy banks for many things.

I spent about five minutes on my phone opening x 2 child accounts last year for ds's 14 and 7. Three days later their debit cards turned up (which they selected the colour of themselves). 14 year old downloaded the app and added his card to ApplePay.

No fees, no fuss, no visits. Monzo.

The point of banks is to make bankers as much money as possible. They do not do this by giving people a bit of change or making provision to give people a bit of change.

Bankers have priviliged access to the money supply. They have this because the government do not want to get their hands dirty dealing with loans etc which does not always paint them in the best light politically when they have to take aggressive action - they would prefer the bankers to get the fallout from that instead.

In return for the priviliged access the bank should a) be able to make a small amount of profit that keeps the bankers in nice but not huge houses consistent with the small amount of skill they have (basically adding up numbers) and b) provide banking services that the public need.

Unfortunately in recent times bankers have become less and less happy with their nice houses and providing public services and instead want multi million pound bonuses and mansions. To achieve these they stop services that don't make them any money (like for example maintaining branch facilities) and instead spend their time doing stuff like gambling in the investment and stock markets to make themselves millions and inventing new ways of making banking more complex (so called "financial innovation").

I guess it is for the public to judge whether or not the bankers are fulfilling their social contract (priviliged access to the money supply vs. banking services provided) and whether or not anything should be done about this.

Like politicians, we get the bankers we deserve.