Thoughts on OLD man..

[Perrylobster]

I met a man on OLD and would really appreciate some outside opinions, especially as I’ve previously been in an abusive relationship and want to sanity check myself before getting more involved.

He is divorced and has a daughter. He separated from the child’s mother very shortly after the birth. He says this was not his decision. There was a long court process and he eventually got standard contact, every other weekend and one midweek day.
He says the mother moved away and he followed her, including relocating his job. He works in a professional role that involves a lot of empathy and care, which I mention only because it seems relevant to his presentation.
His explanation is that the child’s mother was developing mental health problems after the birth and moved in with her parents. He says her parents wanted to protect her and were concerned the baby might be taken away, and that as a result he was shut out.

I’m aware that there are always two sides to these situations. As a woman myself, and having had my own experience of being left shortly after giving birth and being labelled abusive, I know how complex and painful these dynamics can be.

In person he came across as open and willing to answer questions, and his body language felt genuine to me, but I also know that I may be over analysing or projecting because of my past.

I’d really welcome thoughts on how this sounds to others, any potential red flags, and what sensible, non confrontational questions I could ask on a next date to get a clearer picture.

I just said from experience 😂 that's my experience and every woman I know who has left their partner soon after giving birth. I've known plenty of mums with PND and they have never been the ones to leave, the husbands in some cases have or they've stayed and ridden out the storm together.

Is there any evidence of him going to court?

Speaking from experience, there is usually a lot more to stories where the dad was "shut out".

My situation is different as my ex doesn't see our daughter at all. BUT in his version of events, I'm controlling, I've over exaggerated our daughter's health issues and additional needs to keep him away, and he went to court, got awarded 50/50 contact and I refuse to follow the court order and thus am guilty of parental alienation, and a solicitor has been helping him fight this for years. He's managed to fool multiple women into thinking he's a commited father who has been banned from seeing his child despite paying full maintenance and fighting for her. However he couldn't prove any of this if anyone he's been with was smart enough to ask.

Without writing an essay, my version of events as to why he has no contact is VERY different and I can back up everything including her health issues and SEN with letters and reports from consultants, CMS and various other professionals, as well as texts between the two of us. 🤷🏽‍♀️

I wouldn't necessarily run yet. But I would be wary and try to find out as much as you can before you get too deeply involved. The proof is in the paperwork.

OP’s post is very clear. She starts by stating the contact he has, which was given after a court battle. Then later she says what the background to the split was, and how he came to leaving when the child was young.

OP there are a lot of men haters on MN, who will immediately say the man is a useless lazy waster, without (as is abundantly clear) actually reading the post. It’s a pity they allow their own bad experiences to colour their views so much as to render them almost irrelevant.

OP unfortunately it’s impossible to be 100% sure in this situation if he’s a genuinely lovely man with a toxic ex, or if he’s a lying scumbag. But the fact that he went to court is a good sign, because plenty of men don’t bother. If you like him then I’d give him a chance, but be on the lookout for dodgy signs.

I’m sorry you’ve had such a tough time - I’ve been in a similar situation myself so sadly all to aware of how people can manipulate the truth.

It's tricky OP. I agree with you that typically a woman doesn't leave a man very soon after having a baby unless there's a very good reason. However, it's certainly possible, even if unlikely, and severe PND could be one reason. You could give this man a chance if you want to but take it very very very slowly (as I'm sure you would anyway given your previous experience).

You’ve got a bit of a nerve criticising other posters IQs when your post reads like Dick Van Dyke’s attempt at a cockney accent. She said he went to court and was awarded contact and then went on to talk about how the grandparents shut him out. So no, it wasn’t completely clear what order events happened in.

OP, I think that, at this stage, you haven’t got enough information to make a decision on his honesty either way. We know that PND exists. We know that babies put pressure on a relationship. And we know that marriages have a high failure rate. He could be being completely truthful and honest with you. It’s a positive sign that he’s having regular contact with his child. On the other hand, we also know that the family courts often consider that fathers have more rights than children do and that a woman having a child is often enough for her to decide that she needs to leave so that her baby isn’t subjected to what she’s gone through. You could be doubtful because of your own experiences or because you’re unconsciously picking up on worrying signals he’s giving off. In these circumstances, I don’t think you’ll find out for definite until you’re a bit deeper in. I think it would probably be a good idea to think about a request for info under Clare’s Law. I’d also take things very, very slowly. Don’t believe anything until it happens and don’t let him in your life so far that it wouldn’t be very easy to eject him from it completely.

It’s not supposed to be about what’s great for the other parent though, is it? It’s supposed to be what’s best for the child.

Only one of two things is possible -
One - Abusive bloke with extremely well acted good-guy persona. Can keep it up till woman gives birth so that's a minimum of a year - i.e. at least a few months of dating and pregnancy. (Her instigating the split doesn't mean he's not a bastard, it just means she had good support)

Two - Wife was genuinely a bitch with pnd and threw him out soon after having a child.

My money is on 1.

At a handful of dates in - do you really want to hang around to find of which it is?

Absolutely this. It’s what so many parents just can’t see.

So would you be prepared to volunteer to be the low contact parent/non primary carer?

No, but it seems there are a great many men who are more than happy to do so (my ex included).

I suspect that there are quite a lot of men who are poor enough partners that their wives are willing to go it alone rather than stay married, who are also poor enough dads that they actually prefer to do a lot less than 50/50. Hands-on dads, in my opinion, are just far more likely to stay married.

I think we both agree that there are plenty of crap fathers out there. There are also, in my experience, plenty of hands on loving father's too who unsurprisingly would rather not be less involved in their children's lives post separation. Im at an age now where many of couples whose weddings I attended in my 20s have now divorced and some of the custody battles that have ensued have been less about whats good for the children and more about 'winning' despite the father involved clearly being a good and capable parent.

oh please. If you believe this story you will believe anything. I would return him back to OLD. I think these men all have variants of the same story. The crazy ex who looks after the child nearly all the time is a classic. She’s crazy but the court lets her have majority care…

I would not be happy. But it is still the child’s best interested that matter more than me.

I had severe PND and one point unfairly hated DH and he would have fought tooth and nail for contact (he’s a very loving father). So I wouldn’t assume he’s a wrong un. Go on another date, he’s clearly involved in his child's life so he’s not a deadbeat dad.

Of course it happens, mums making contact with the dad difficult and dads making contact with mum difficult.
I should imagine it’s rarely black & white and that’s why we have family courts.
So he has contact with his son now, all is good with his ex and this was all in the past, is that correct?
How long has it been since regular contact with his son has been happening and is a good co parenting relationship with his ex now?

Aa someone who is in this very situation right now (looking at being the NRP after 6 years of being the RP) I agree this should be the focus. It’s the one thing I truly feared happening post split from my kid’s dad. And yet here we are. It’s the path of least immediate harm for my child, to go along with it, but that doesn’t make it any easier to bear for me as the parent. It’s probably in their interests right now though.

I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this but your self-sacrifice speaks volumes about you. It is so often parents who are thinking about what they want rather than what will cause the child the least distress that causes so much harm.

@thatsterriblemuriel Thank you. That is a very kind post and one which I really needed to read after a very tricky Christmas.

I’m not in the same shoes but so many of us that post on here have had desperate struggles in the same sphere one way or another. You have all my sympathy.

Hmm I think the main thing is here he went I court to get contact.

Relationships break down and contact can become contentious.
But he didn't give up on his child.

So on that part alone I wouldn't write him off,

Follow your instinct if there are other red flags though.

That is true. On balance going to court for contact is probably a good thing and shows evidence of not giving up. If this guy has had unproblematic contact with his child ever since and they have a good, healthy, realistic non- Disney relationship, then that does imply hope. A minority of people, unfortunately, will use legal processes as a way of continuing coercive or overt relationship control.

From what I can gather, he’s always had contact in some capacity but it was very much as and when it suited with no official agreement - with the added difficulty of her parents trying to restrict access. There is now an official court order which from what I can gather he adheres to rigidly. The relationship is strained between the other parent still and there still seems to be animosity coming from her family to his. So it’s definitely not hunky dory.

Actually a previous boss I had years ago was left by the woman who had just given birth to his child. She basically wanted a child with a well off intelligent man who could pay child support (cheaper than going to a sperm bank I guess). I had no loyalty towards him as a person - but what she did was wicked. He was absolutely gutted.

OP - you are right to be wary but he’s worth a second date. In your conversations about his child you’ll see how committed he is over time.