Taking photos of items at craft market — is it allowed?

[Mithrellas]

I was at a Christmas craft market a few weeks ago, and started taking photos of some nice looking hand turned wooden pipes when the stall owner barked “No photos! Only for buying!” at me. I was a bit shocked so I left and didn’t say anything.

Thinking back, I wonder — can stall owners at a market stop people from taking photographs in a public place? Obviously their work is on sale outside so presumably ok to photograph? Is there a quick, polite, non-confrontational sentence I could use in the future to explain that this is allowed (if this is the case)?

I love browsing through market stalls and looking at interesting small things for sale (handmade paper, ceramics, knitted items, small artisanal metal work, wooden pendants, hand poured candles, small houseplants, maybe a cute collection of cupcakes, etc.). I don’t buy a lot of items but I do like taking say two or three photos for me to look back on, just for personal use.

I don’t post photos on social media or share them, and I’m not crafty and wouldn’t dream of trying to make anything similar to sell on (perhaps that is why some artisans don’t like images of their wares online? Though wouldn’t that help other potential buyers see what they sell?).

I had a similar thing happen at a craft fair. I wanted to send a photo to my friend because I knew she'd been looking for some nice hand made toys as a gift for her new niece. I was going to offer to buy one for her if she liked them, but the stall holder shouting at me for taking a photo and then demanded I delete it and show her the proof. I tried to explain, and I didn't have any idea about the issue of people copying their stuff and selling online. She wouldn't listen, she was just angry. I ended up leaving in tears, I'd gone to cheer myself up a few days after losing our oldest dog. Wouldn't normally react that way, but she really was very unpleasant and I was feeling sad already. It cost her a potential sale, so I hope it was worth it.

I understand being protective over your work, but to the extent that it makes you treat prospective customers so harshly? Really?

The problem is, though, that that is exactly the kind of thing that people wanting to steal their designs would say just the same as would people who genuinely do mean it and are indeed seriously looking to make a purchase.

It's also occurred to me that, as we see from MN threads, craft creations frequently divide people starkly between those who really love them and those who think they are truly an abomination.

For all they know, even if you are wanting to take a photo to genuinely send to your sister, it might be so that she and you can laugh and mock it - and potentially, any photo could go viral for all of the wrong reasons. They know that not everybody will like their creations, but they'd far rather non-fans just quietly move on rather than trashing their work all across SM.

@CrazyGoatLady Sorry to hear about the loss of your dog. Did you ask the stall owner permission before taking pics of their stock?

I have already commented but I will say again that I think this thread is batshit...

I have no idea as to why people jumped to the conclusion that if someone takes a pictures of a craft object in a public place like a market it is because they plan to "steal" its design....

I would simply assume that,shock horror, the OP simply liked the look of the object.

I also pointed it out that most craft makers/artists will promote their work online so anyone can see pictures of them already. If anyone had nefarious aims and wanted to copy something, a quick search would get them what they needed anyway.

I am a painter and show my work frequently and I have no issues with people taking pics of my paintings and sharing them on social media for example. It raises awareness of my work and can bring potential new clients. People might also take a a pic to help decide if they want to buy later. Most galleries have no issues with photography.

I don't think anyone is jumping to that conclusion?

Lots of people have make a distinction between people who ask to take pictures, and people who don't bother, and it does have to do with how much you are worried about people copying. I don't know what your paintings are like, but it doesn't seem unlikely to me that they might be relatively difficult to copy. And if someone advertises a lovely painting online then delivers something quite different, it's pretty obvious! By contrast, someone I know had her embroidery designs stolen recently. You would see the picture of something lovely and buy the kit, only to find the instructions and contents were substandard. That damages the reputation of the person who put all the trouble in, because people will see her designs and think 'oh, I bought one of those and it was crap'.

Similarly, a friend of mine makes very lovely, elegant Christmas wreaths and she is currently selling a wreath kit. Someone nicked her photos to use for their own kits, but whereas her kit includes all sorts of gorgeous, varied foliage in good condition, and expensive additional 'bits,' this person is sending out crap, using pictures of her product.

If you're selling something like either of those things, you are going to care much more about the images of the finished product being stolen than if you're selling something like a painting.

I'd never have thought about it if I'd not seen it myself, but people really do have to worry about this stuff.

And if you explained that to me I'd say "Good strategy, thanks for explaining! If you need any help, let me know".

It's not designed to make people feel awkward about taking pictures, it's to put the copiers and re-sellers on the spot - they're the ones who'll struggle to give a good answer as to why they're taking photos of every item I stock 😅

I genuinely did not know I was not supposed to take pictures without asking and this was frowned upon. There were no signs stating no photos, the stall holder was busy talking, I didn't think for a second it'd be a problem. Now people have explained it here, I understand the issues better as to why stall holders might be wary of it, and of course won't make the same mistake again. I don't think I'd have had a positive response if I'd asked this particular stall holder though.

If makers don't want people to take photos of their stuff, they need to make it clear with signage. It's fair enough to make your wishes clear and explain why, but yelling at people when you have no proof they are doing anything untoward is uncalled for. Lots of people who are not crafters or artists won't have a clue about the issues involved, as I didn't. I'm also autistic, so not good with unexplained and unspoken/unwritten rules. If I know what the rule is, of course I'll abide by it. In this case, I simply didn't know/understand. But it's impossible to convey that to someone who is shouting at you and demanding to see your phone and won't listen to you.

@CrazyGoatLady There were no signs stating no photos
There also wasn't a sign saying 'Please don't steal my products', 'Don't shit on my table' or 'Please don't use my stand as an ashtray'! I'm not a crafter nor sell things either, but thought it was common social etiquette to at least ask first before taking photos of someones' hand made items or even a photo within their shop etc?

I'm sorry you were yelled at and that you didn't understand unless these was a sign, but you do know now and can only go forward.

Which is exactly what I've said - I've understood now because people here have explained it. Don't know why you feel the need to stick the boot in further and get snooty about "common social etiquette".

You do know part of being autistic is having difficulties with social communication, right? What you think is "common social etiquette" that doesn't need explaining isn't always obvious to us. Stealing or damaging products in a shop or stall (which isn't even social etiquette by the way, it's the law, and stealing or criminal damage are criminal offences) are not remotely equivalent to taking a photo of a product, which is not illegal. People are glued to their phones everywhere they go, filming every bloody where these days, even in public toilets for fucks sake! What etiquette is even left?

Maybe don't bother with the fake empathy next time. You can't remotely understand what it's like to constantly go through life getting lots of things wrong that you had no idea were even wrong, and feel like everybody else has a rulebook you don't have. You just go right ahead and ride that sanctimonious high horse.