Schools closing for flu

[Busydoingsomething]

A school near me has partially closed due to staff shortages. Another has cancelled all performances. Some of the children will have been vaccinated but I suspect, lots of the staff won’t have been. I was listening to 2 people today, on the train, discussing whether school staff should be vaccinated, to prevent the staff being off and impacting on education. Wondering if this would be a good move.

A nasal spray using pork gelatine. Muslim scholars in the UK have said it is religiously permitted. However, there may be people from a range of religious beliefs who would be put off by that.

Common sense would have suggested that reducing obvious barriers to uptake should have been considered.

@usedtobeaylis

I wonder if hygiene standards have slipped a lot and if reinforcing that everywhere again would help more.

Nail on the head. Even in hospitals, hygiene standards are poor amongst hospital staff. Drs/nurses are obsessed with "red" even since AIDS etc and ignore anything they can't see, i.e. airborne and "clear" fluids. My OH is severely immunocompromised due to incurable bone marrow cancer, but even his cancer nurses and haematologist need reminding to wash their hands or change gloves before touching him/giving injections/treatments etc., and none of them wear masks. The waiting rooms and treatment rooms are stuffy with no fresh air nor ventilation and patients are all crowded into tiny spaces. That's ultra-vulnerable patients undergoing chemotherapy. It's really no surprise that there are so many hospital-acquired infections and that wards are often closed due to norovirus etc. But, yes, everywhere else, there should be public information films again about basic hygiene precautions such as hand washing, "catching" coughs/sneezes, etc. I did hope that covid would have knocked some sense into people to take hygiene more seriously but it seems to have had the opposite effect with lots of people not taking precautions as a kind of demented badge of honour!

I had the jab and feel fine.

So what?

Here you go @Elizabethandfour in case you missed the critique of your study.
No need for@PandoraSocks to take my word for it (I did read your link but spotted it wasn’t peer reviewed) as @ThisTaupeZebra has explained its flaws very helpfully.

Thank you for raising that interesting point. Luckily the health business is not as lacking in common sense as you suggest.

"Children's flu vaccine ingredients

Most children are offered the nasal spray flu vaccine. It is the preferred vaccine for children aged 2 to 16 years (as well as children aged 17 who have certain long-term health conditions).

You can check the ingredients in the patient leaflet:
Fluenz nasal spray flu vaccine patient leaflet (Electronic Medicines Compendium website)

The nasal spray vaccine contains a small amount of gelatine from pigs (porcine gelatine).

A flu vaccine injection is available that does not contain gelatine. If you do not want your child to have the nasal spray vaccine, speak to the person vaccinating your child or ask for the flu vaccine injection on the school consent form.

Children who cannot have the nasal spray vaccine and children under the age of 2 years will also be offered a flu vaccine injection.

You can check the flu vaccine injection ingredients in the patient leaflet"

www.nhs.uk/vaccinations/child-flu-vaccine/

All 5 adults in the house have the flu jab - we trek off to Boots early in October, it’s become quite the event, involving lunch afterwards too.
DD’s colleague came down with the flu (diagnosed) a few weeks ago, she passed it to DD who experienced rotten cold symptoms for about a week, she had then passed it to her partner (who lives with us and is one of the jabbed) and he also experienced a rotten cold. Of the remaining 3, two had mild symptoms for a day or so, the other has had no symptoms at all.
Therefore I think the flu jab IS useful in limiting both the effects and the duration of it.
It doesn’t stop me going full monty on meds and symptom relief in the house though. The alcohol gel is back on the hall table and I’m rather glad we were planning a quiet Xmas season anyway.

Feeling horrible with cold symptoms or bedridden with flu? There’s a difference. Maybe you can thank your vaccine for protecting you from the latter?

We were always offered it I.y previous school on the same day the pupils received theirs. One less thing for me to have to arrange outside of school. A member of staff would come and cover your lesson and you were back in lesson 10 mins later. Perfect x

Thank you, I'm not really in that area.

I was more making the point that it's not easy for everyone to pop to their local pharmacy as the vaccine is sold out in many places.

In my area in London (very mixed) the injection wasn’t available in the schools my DC went to. You had to get it separately from the GP.

So back my original point, if you create barriers to uptake don’t be surprised if uptake falls.

One of the problems with the study is that they didn't look for all the possible other differences between the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups, like whether the vaccinated people were in roles with much more exposure to sick people (a very plausible reason why someone may have chosen to be vaccinated, compared to someone in a less risky role). That extra exposure to sick people would by itself make them more likely to get flu.

If you read the comments below the preprint, someone also highlighted that in some hospitals people who aren't vaccinated have to wear masks, and people who are vaccinated don't. A medical grade mask worn in a risky environment would also provide more protection than a vaccine.

Basically the authors seem to have drawn their conclusion by assuming, but not actually checking, that the only difference between the two groups was whether or not they'd been vaccinated.

I don't think anyone debating whether or not to go unvaccinated and unmasked into an environment full of sick people should trust this study.

Quite!
People working in a back office function are far less likely to be exposed and therefore far less likely to bother having the vaccine.
It's a pretty flawed study

One of the problems is so many people associate flu with a bad cold. Which, in some cases it can be the same symptoms. So they don’t bother with a jab. But flu can also be a quite serious illness that wipes you out, can also lead to hospitalisation and death.

I had “proper” flu nearly 30 years ago. I lived on my own and it was really frightening how ill I felt with no one else around to step in and call for help if I was unable. I was young and healthy and I was off work for two weeks and took another four weeks before I felt normal again. Even Covid wasn’t as bad for me.

Ever since then I’ve had the flu jab every year - sometimes I’ve worked for employers who offered it onsite as a perk, other times I’ve just paid myself at the pharmacy. I do it every year in September/October. Basically as soon as it’s available. The other thing I do is wash my hands! Not obsessively but whenever I come in the house after being out, and also before eating and after using the loo. It amazes me that people have forgotten already that really basic hygiene steps cut down loads of illnesses. Or they haven’t forgotten but somehow judge it’s not worth the effort.

The kids at my DC’s school are only receiving their flu vaccines today, so a bit late in terms of the current surge, but better than nothing. Most seem to get it, although I don’t know if the teachers are offered it. The issue this year seems to be an earlier peak of cases than in previous years, which in conjunction with a reduction in staff is causing concern.

i don’t work in the NHS, but my company offers to reimburse me for the flu vaccine. Seems like a sensible approach, but not everyone will want it.

You can have the vegan jab if the nasal spray isnt any good. My daughter is vegetarian so always had the jab instead of the spray.
They dont encourage it (I guess it's more difficult to administer) and you have to speak with someone who will ask you to fill out a form but they dont keep it secret.

I don’t want compulsory vaccinations for anyone - school staff or children. Neither do I view schools as childcare. My observations were that, if schools do close, it becomes difficult for working parents which then has a knock on effect on other jobs. Hence, it’s useful if all staff (Who want to be vaccinated) can be vaccinated.

@Badbadbunny even during COVID in the docs surgery and hospital waiting rooms I had to open windows or ask staff to get them open. Stuffy airless rooms !
Incredible isn't it.
What hope do we have when people are utterly oblivious of this connection to getting ill ??

As a former teacher I can say that I was offered* the flu vaccine several times during my career - but only when working in independent schools. If they thought it worthwhile to offer the vaccine and so reduce the likelihood of staff absences, then it probably was...but state schools can't afford that.

*And I do mean offered, there as never any pressure.

Not true. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/flu-vaccine-providing-important-protection-despite-new-subclade

As a teacher I've always got the flu jab and most colleagues as well.

If the government had given the flu jab for free like during covid times, I'm sure more people would have had it in the long run it would have been cheaper than treating thousands of people in hospital,.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/flu-vaccine-providing-important-protection-despite-new-subclade

Im suprised they aren’t. I was offered it, and always took it, when I worked with in schools with children.

I wish! My 6 year old daughter was vaccinated and then ended up in the children’s hospital for 2 weeks with the flu. Had another admission this week and hospitals back to masks and they’re over loaded with the flu 😩

You're lucky if they have windows that open and a roof that is not at risk of imminent collapse due to dodgy concrete. They often leak and are badly insulated.