Choosing a school based on commute, AuDHD, and being a bad sleeper

[School123Choices]

Is it unreasonable to select a specific secondary school, i.e place it first in our order of preferences solely on it having the shortest commute time?

My daughter was previously a LAC, and so we can select our preferred school. We have narrowed it down to one of these three, different but we understand similar quality schools:

Besides each school is the total commute time, i.e. door to door, all commutes have been extensively trialled, so we know our preferred mode of transport and transition points for each one.

Camden School for Girls - 35 minutes (including 5 minutes on Overground)
St Marylebone CE - 39 minutes (including 27 minutes on bus)
Grey Coat Hospital - 50 minutes (including 14 minutes on tube)

Daughter struggles massively with sleep, suspected AuDHD might be contributing factor. Getting to sleep is difficult, once she's asleep, she then sleeps very deeply, which makes waking up the next morning really tough. Coupled with her executive functioning which oftentimes is a bit lot awry, having a short commute might possibly make mistakes less likely - I'm not sure.

If all else is equal, with regards how much daughter likes the schools, quality of subjects and opportunities offered; is selecting one of these schools purely based on quality/ duration of commute a rational and justifiable response to my daughter's sleep and AuDHD troubles? Nb. Sleep troubles are being investigated and tackled, but cannot guarantee success at this point.

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As an aside, do you know these schools? Are there any reasons we should actively avoid or actively choose one of these, based on daughter's suspected AuDHD?

We don't have an EHCP, we know that without an EHCP in place, support will be practically non-existent at most secondary schools, but is there anything else we as outsiders should be aware of about these three schools whilst making these decisions?

Thanks so much for anyone who has read this far.

I would make a new thread with the school names in the title, or ask MNHQ to change the title. Those schools are discussed regularly on this site and there's plenty of info if you do a search. CSG is our local school and my understanding is that it's not great for SEN.

I also thought that previously LAC get priority and you're likely to get your first choice without having to give reasons or justifying your choice. May not be the case for the religious schools though, but it'll be laid out on their website. So no reason to overthink it.

All things being equal, it is absolutely fine to pick based on commuting time. Why would you commute for longer to a similar school? Being closer to school benefits all children in terms of more free time, easier to see friends etc.

The commute times you have listed aren't super short, so presumably you have discounted other schools you like less. If it's a case of 'shall we pick the nearest school from our top 3', then I would say probably yes. Only thing is think about whether lots of walking v. longer on the bus is better.

Hi @Bellybrane ,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts; it's appreciated. I should clarify - the justification is for myself.

After all the agonising and teeth-nashing about which schools should make the top 6, I wondered if it was a little short-sighted to ultimately pick the number one choice based solely on the duration and quality of the commute.

If my daughter had similar sleep habits to my other children, this wouldn't be a conversation. But she doesn't, and I'm nervous that the further she has to travel, she's likely to be late most days and to be missing either some equipment or uniform. Which reminds me, the absence of a school uniform is another feature that makes Camden seem particularly attractive as well.

I did wonder about including the school names in the thread title, but in the end I realised there were plenty of threads already discussing the general pros and cons of these specific schools - they helped with a lot of our desk research! At this juncture, though, I'm mostly interested in others' views, thoughts or experiences of using the quality of commute as an essential criterion for selecting a secondary school. If anyone does know anything about the specific transport routes for these schools, or experiences of SEN children (generally) in these schools, those insights would be really welcome. Thanks again.

When you say trialled journeys - what time did you do this?

my daughter is an easy journey to school on the bus except you cannot guarantee it at 7.30am.

also how often does the overground run? I use it (different branch for work and it relatively often has issues. I wonder if you are better looking at ease of commute vs time - presumably the tube is every minute or so so if she’s running late thats less impactful than missing a train that’s once every 20 minutes.

Those are quite long commutes and not close to each other so I assume you’ve discounted the shortest commutes to you. Are you choosing for other reasons too? With AuDHD suspected I’d maybe look at Parliament Hill before Camden School for Girls. It’s well worth looking for a school that’s definitely good with SEN, if that’s suspected. I’ve had one child out of school for 6 months with EBSR, and one tipping into it at the moment, so the qualities I looked at originally (mainly for academic results) have been less important in the end than a school that she is able to walk through the door of. It’s a minefield choosing the right place.

Ah, OK. Personally I always find a tube commute is more reliable over buses or Overground. I've found buses have got much worse in London and have given up using them for any journey where I need to be somewhere at a specific time. I've done Overground commutes and the experience is fine when it is running, but I've found they are more prone to cancellations and planned engineering than the tube, and there often isn't a good alternative route. It depends on the exact route and stations though. Generally the more central the school, there will be more alternative routes when the main route inevitably goes down.

I'm not at this stage yet but as someone with AuDHD and a suspected autistic DD - I'd re-consider nearer (much nearer) schools with strong pastoral care. Or, at least, dig into the pastoral/SEN support at each of the above schools. I think asking a tired and dysregulated 12 year old to do a 30 minute commute through central London 10x a week is potentially setting her up to fail.

Thanks @BendingSpoons , this is exactly the conversation we're now having - should we pick Camden, purely because it offers the shortest, and possibly the 'nicest' of all the commutes.

Marlyebone has the least walking, the bus stop is close to home and close to the school. Grey Coat has the most, the tube stations are a minimum of 15 minutes walk away at either end, and Camden is a little quicker than Grey Coat.

The hope would be that from y9, or possibly y8, she would be able to cycle to school, so all of these commute times would immediately be cut in half.

And yes, you're right, there are so many reasons why being closer to home is better from both a logistics and social well-being perspective. Lots to weigh up...

Like others I would also be looking at ease and not just length of the commute.

My AuDHD child really struggles with executive function in the morning and has to catch a bus - they're not that frequent, the timetable is not reliable and the live bus information isn't always accurate. Basically every morning is a stress because he needs to leave the house at a different time each day to make the bus, and if he misses that bus he's likely to be late. It is, however, rare for there to be no bus at all.

Overground can be infrequent and prone to cancellation, depending on the line.

Underground can be more frequent and reliable, but may create more sensory overwhelm (often noisy, crowded).

If we could have had a school in walking distance we'd have jumped at it.

My kids aren’t AuDHD but would have a definite preference between Overground vs bus vs tube.

I would do the journey in the morning and afternoon to see how busy it is and the likelihood of delays and cancellations too.

I have a DD with the exact same challenge. She’s now in uni but the last 3-4 years of school mornings were really tough. Her school was 45 mins away and it was hell. If I could do it again I’d choose the shortest + easiest commute. No switches if possible and no rigid timings like trains or buses 20 mins apart from the next. Stress is a huge factor and the stress of not making a specific bus can drive the whole family into shouting mode!
I would steer clear of no uniform as well. Choice of clothing means enormous time wasted agonising over choices.
even without EHCP a school should provide decent SEN support - worth speaking to the SENCO of the schools to understand this better.

Lack of uniform would have have been a massive issue for my daughter (AuDHD). The indecision, the agonising over choices etc.

I don’t think I would be basing my decision around the commute alone, but would be looking for a school with the best possible pastoral care. Secondary school, year 9 onwards in particular was an incredibly difficult time for my daughter (and many ND girls) due to puberty and its affect on both her and the behaviour of other girls.

I would want to be reassured that any school I chose had incredibly robust strategies and policies around bullying as well as clear and evidenced agreement for reasonable adjustments on uniform, timings, homework, behaviour consequences etc.

Commute is important- certainly was a factor for my AuDHD daughter but far more important is the pastoral care and SEN support. I’d be contacting the schools and asking for a conversation with the SENCO to find out what support is in place and how good they are about reasonable adjustments. An EHCP is not actually needed for either of those things (I’m a teacher).

Hi @whatohwhattodo ,

Thanks for commenting, for Camden she'll be on the Mildmay line which seems to depart every 4 to 6 minutes and looks to be fairly reliable.

I don't use public transport myself so am unsure if we've just been lucky the times we've used it, but hopefully not. We've travelled during the same period that she would need to to get school on time.

I'm trying to weigh up quality and duration of commute, and in my head, the order of preference would be Overground (formally the East London Line), then bus, then tube as a last resort. I don't think I'd consider a school that relied on National Rail - although admittedly I'm particularly biased against National Rail as I rarely had a good experience when commuting from South London into town, although that was over 20 years ago, and a completly different part of London!

If the Mildmay line is down, she can also jump on a bus as an alternative.

And if there are major disruptions due to strikes or similar we could cycle to school with her, cycling is the fallback for all of the schools.

Hi @Zhu ,

I'm so sorry to hear of your children's challenges with school attendance, I hope you're able to find a resolution soon.

I've tried to understand how each of the schools can support my daughter, and only one, St Marylebone could offer assurances with regards to the support they could offer. I haven't been able to speak with the SEN lead at the other schools, as yet.

My daughter had a relatively strong physical and emotional reaction to how she felt whilst she was stood in and again whilst she walked around each school, so I'm trying to keep that in mind as well.

There are other schools much closer to us, however, we're looking at a variety of factors, including SEN provision, academics, subjects offered, extracurricular opportunities, commute... you're completly right, it's a minefield, so many things to try and weigh up.

Hi @JustGoClickLikeALightSwitch ,

Thank you for sharing your perspective, it's appreciated.

I will continue to try and understand better the SEN provision and pastoral care at both Grey Coat and Camden, I recognise that these two factors will be central to my daughter's day to day experience.

You're right, commuting into and across Central London each day is not ideal at all. If we could move after National Offer Day that would be great, however, it's just not viable for us unfortunately.

We did talk about our local options, and in the end my daughter is keen to have a fresh start at secondary, and so is actively vetoing local schools. She would like the opportunity to be in an environment where she's very unlikely to bump into people she attends primary school with.

Hi @blastfurnace ,

Thanks for sharing your views.

I feel similarly about the tube. However, for the moment, my daughter seems unfazed. She kind of goes into a bit of day dream, she tells me she has different fantasies and adventures playing in her head at any one time and she's concentrating on those, so is not affected by her immediate surroundings whilst commuting. She often asks me to stop talking whilst we're walking alongside each other as I'm interrupting her stories...

If she were to be offered Camden, the Overground (formally the East London Line) departs every 4-6 minutes, and if that line is down she could hop on a bus. And failing that, there's always cycling, walking or the tube.

She's keen to avoid our local schools as she would like to be amongst completly new people.

Hi @FitnessIsTheOnlyWealth ,

Thank you for sharing your experience, I'm very sorry that the last few years of school were so tough, I hope your daughter is faring better at university.

We've limited schools to those in which the only switch is from walking to either bus, overground or tube. There's no switching between different public transport options.

I'm not too concerned about uniform / non- uniform, except to say that certain materials of clothing can be triggering, so does make non- uniform more attractive. Although she does like how smart the Grey Coat uniform is, although she hasn't felt it!

It's great to hear from yourself and other posters that you think we should be able to secure some support without the EHCP in hand, I'll continue exploring this.