Tell me what you would do.

[PurpleSky300]

So - long story short, my Dad (57) has been given a provisional diagnosis of peripheral vascular disease (PVD) and is having a hard time coping while waiting in limbo for hospital referral and tests. He has pain in his legs, arms, neck, ringing in his ears, pain at rest, can't sleep, panicking that he's going to die, and so on.

The issue really is that - this follows on from a lifetime of alcoholism and smoking which really damaged a lot of his relationships. He used to be very violent under the influence of drink and drugs, so my Mum will not have dealings with him. He is estranged from his sisters, his Mum is 90. There is just me nearby.

In recent weeks, when I've been talking about this, my Mum will say "He never bothered with you from the day you were born. He never played with you or took you to school or lifted one finger except to drink/smoke himself into oblivion and smash up the house, so why are you helping him? The chickens have come home to roost!"

And what she says is true. But since this diagnosis, he has quit all substances and has been 'clean' for the time in 40 years. I think he is trying. And it may be true that he wouldn't do the same thing in return but that's not why we do things, is it? We do things because they are right. What would you do?

I'm with your mum...My ex has treated myself and, more importantly, his child in the same way. It has been very painful to watch. I have been left to pick up the pieces and deal with the anger she feels from the rejection. If I were you I wouldn't bother to help him. He doesn't deserve your love.

I don’t think what you are doing is ‘right’ in any sense of the word.

I would do whatever your gut tells you! I don’t think it really matters if he would have or not because you are your own person and have separate morals. Either way you could mention to your Dad that it’s hard to help because of xyz. I wouldn’t feel bad with whatever decision you make because your reasons will be valid. Sorry you’re going through this!

If you are willing to help, and it’s not a guilt thing or a feeling of ‘should’ then do so. I wouldn’t myself. I’m not a forgiving soul and when someone has behaved as badly as he has, I do think he deserves all he gets. We are all different, and I wouldn’t criticise your choices, and wouldn’t expect you to criticise mine.

Whatever you want to do. You don't owe him anything, so you have a free choice. And it may make you feel better to build whatever relationship you can with him.

I had a shit dad. But I chose to have the relationship I could with him as I could. He let me down, repeatedly. But I loved him and in his own clumsy, hopeless way he loved me back. He died when I was in my 20s and I have never regretted my relationship with him. It was what it could be.

My sister, who always expected more of him (to be a half decent dad), is full of regrets. She feels like she never had any relationship with him that wasn't full of reproaches and friction. She was right in what she asked, but he couldn't give it to her and as a result she got nothing at all, and when he died she was absolutely devastated that now she never would.

Sometimes it's not about what we have to do, it's about what will make us feel better, even if it doesn't seem to make sense.

Why?

I think acting in a way you feel would be wrong, against your instinct or moral judgement would be an injury to you OP. It’s about you really.
If you walk away, which you have every right to do, would you be ok?
There isn’t a wrong answer really. None of us here are necessarily going to feel the same in a similar situation.

Do what your gut instinct tells you. Don't feel guilty for not wanting to help him.

I agree, do what your gut tells you. My dm is a horrible abusive woman. I stay in her life and help with her because that's who I am and it is within my values to do that. I help far less than my sister, as much as i can cope with. But it is fine to walk away. You have to maintain your own health first. How does it make you feel to help?

I wouldn’t help him not only because of how he has treated you, but because it would feel like a slap in the face for your Mum.

I think you really need to sit down, with a coffee and consider when he dies, what will you be comfortable with?
Will you carry guilt if you don't help him?
Will you feel OK with yourself if you went by your actual needs instead if his?

I made the decision that I would be fine with not being there for my Dad, as he made all of the decisions to destroy his relationships all of his life. Even sober, he couldn't buy me a card for my birthday, and would tell me he moved out of the country to avoid paying maintenance for me. He expected care from me, and to appear as the doting grandad, but let DD down constantly as he had done to me. When it became apparent he was on opiates, and he had been giving over my address when I was on holiday for my home to be robbed so he could share in the proceeds, I actually realised I'd be setting myself on fire to have anything to do with him, and my kids weren't going to be impacted by him.
So he's been in and out of hospital since, and I keep getting calls as he keeps adding me as his next of kin but I cannot do it. I have had to recognise that there might be guilt when he does go but he has made it this way.

Bumping because I am still feeling really conflicted about this situation. My Dad has started apologising for the past and thinking about ways to get his life in order... there's just so much to do that I'm daunted and I don't know if I should dig in and help or just run away. Issues include:

• Hiring people for a 'deep clean' of his house, which is in an appalling state
• Getting appts to replace the boiler, new radiators, removal of god knows how many unsafe ancient appliances.
• He needs dentures, prescription glasses and furniture
• Finding some way to repair or get someone to improve smoke damage on all the yellow walls and ceilings
• He needs an Internet connection

Basically the house needs bulldozing but that's not feasible. He's embarrassed about it, I'm embarrassed, I don't know what to do.

These are all practical things that he could do for himself, OP.

Is he looking for emotional support? To feel that someone cares about him?
( You mentioned his fear of death).

Technically, yes they are. But we're talking about someone who can't use the Internet, is scared to talk on the phone for something as simple as a GP appointment and has lived his whole adult life without really handling any adult responsibility. He house is probably half-buried in crap. If I say "well just get on with it, Google it" then it won't happen. Today I made some NHS calls for him because he just kept saying "you do it, can't you do it, I don't know what to say" and that's a microcosm of his whole life. I feel like if he's going to make these changes, he'll need to be handheld and I'm just not sure if I want to be that person.

You can phone adult social services or the council to ask for recommendations for deep cleaning the house. It costs a lot though.

Good idea, thank you. Do you know roughly how much it might be, are we talking thousands? (small 2-bed house).

OP , I feel for you. You are facing an emotional and moral dilemma. He was a shite dad but still your dad.
So, what would I do given the context? I've given this thought and I think I'd do the bare minimum that I would feel at ease with in my conscience.
I mean the very bare minimum .
You don't want to be cruel to a dying man but don't let him drag you down. He hasn't earned the right to make claims on you.
Put your own oxygen mask on first.
Take care.

I wouldn’t be in contact with him to know he was even sick, honestly. I’m NC with my violent father and have been since I was 14, but if I was in contact, there’s not a chance I’d be helping him or putting myself out. How nice that he can get himself clean and sober for himself but apparently couldn’t when he was getting all shades of fucked up and abusing you and your mum.

I admire you for even considering continuing to help him. You are a much better person than I am. I would let him rot.

Lack of responsibility tends to go hand in hand with alcoholism. He will look to offload responsibilities onto you. As you said he has never paid attention to his responsibilities.

Pick up as much as you want to. But if you do decide to help him I would get therapy from someone who knows about addiction to give you a reality check and prevent you becoming his carer or co-dependent.

Hundreds, not thousands.

This is just venting but I want to try and explain myself a bit.

My Dad was removed from our house by the police when I was 12 and didn't come back, he went to his parents and they bought him his house. Before then he was regularly attacking my Mum in drink, he had jealous rages where he would accuse her of sleeping with other people and things like that. All drink and cannabis-induced. She also drank and would wind him up and it was hideous. I saw him strangle her, stamp on her, smash a phone over her head, etc. Then the next day he would be crying and asking for forgiveness and it would just go on and on. So there was no love lost, not for years.

But it has been 20+ years since then. He is frail now, no teeth and totally buggered up by booze, he looks decades older than he is. He's unrecognisable physically. He cries a lot when I mention the past and he talks about how his Dad used to hit him, and how he used to wet the bed and he was bullied at school, and all these things that I didn't know. The "sober" person is a totally different creature to the "drunk" person and that has always been the case, and I've never been able to reconcile the two. The 'sober' one isn't violent and seems traumatised by his own childhood and absolutely lost in the world now.

This, he didn’t care enough about his children to stop drinking, but now he’s had his ,scare he wants the children to support him and rescue him?
awful man

He’s only 57? Total nonsense he can’t use a phone or the internet.
he’s grooming you to be his bank and carer

I know what it’s like to grow up with an abusive parent and I know what it’s like when they come back on the scene years later. My mother was a horrible, violent, abusive drunk when I was growing up. She walked out of our lives when I was 12 and I haven’t had any kind of relationship with her since. I’m 30 now. She has been back on the scene for a few years now and has some contact with my sisters. For as long as I live I will never have anything to do with my mother. This was a decision that I had to make, and it wasn’t easy. My sisters and my dad respect my decision, just as I respect theirs. In the beginning I was quite annoyed with my sisters, and like your mother I used to remind them of what she put us through. I couldn’t understand why they would want to have anything to do with her again. But eventually I realised that the only thing that mattered to me was my decision. The only person who can decide for you is you. I’m sure your mum suffered a lot, and she probably still carries it, but you need to make the decision for yourself.