DS feels like a complete loser

[LondonCafe]

I have a DS who is a first year student at university and he's come back home for a bit.

He's always been shy growing up and I'd see him more as a "nerdy boy" than a "laddy lad".

He's at uni in halls but doesn't live too far from home. He's made good friends at uni but he's admitted to me now that he doesn't really enjoy the whole "party party" culture. He doesn't like alcohol or drinking anymore because it makes him feel like an emotional mess.

He doesn't like going clubbing because it just reminds him he's never kissed a girl before. Also it brings back a bad memory from year 13. He got teased because a girl he had had a big big crush on "got with" another boy in the year after a party they were all at. And that hurt a lot. He got over it in a few weeks but finds now that if he drinks he starts thinking about it all over again and it hurts. DS was really embarrassed to admit to me he once saw this "other boy" on a night out in the club and then went to the bathroom and cried.

DS feels like he's being pathetic and he shouldn't be upset about these things. But it bothers him a lot that he's never had a single shred of success with girls. No girl has ever shown romantic interest in him and he can't get those thoughts out of his head. He tells "I shouldn't be upset over this anymore mum. It's so silly to get sad about this."

But this does bother him. My advice has been that he doesn't have to go clubbing and to bars anymore. He can do many of the activities at university that don't revolve around drinking. He's gotten into table tennis recently. As for the advice with girls I've told him that he'd be happier meeting someone naturally and having a relationship build than just having a random hookup on a night out.

My DD started uni in September. She doesn’t drink and dislikes anything like clubbing or karaoke nights etc. Also, she’s never dated. However, she is gradually making some friends and slowly finding her tribe. Your DS will too. It’s such early days!

Is he one of those boys that only fancies the beautiful popular girl and pines after her whilst ignoring the normal girls who are actually his equivalent? I remember boys like that when I was young.

What? If he likes someone, he likes someone!

He sounds quite like me when I was young. I'd say if he has some female friends and he's staying off the alcohol (I didn't) he is on the right track. If I could go back to that time I would do more sport and exercise, try to hang out more with the kind of boys who don't go clubbing, as life got better when I finally did, and console myself with the knowledge that one of the advantages of being a heterosexual male is that your potential pool of partners expands greatly as you go into your twenties and thirties.

I have a DS who was a bit like this. He has since done some online dating which boosted his confidence and now says he wished he'd done this when he was at uni, although I don't know if this would actually have worked for him at the time.

I was actually tall and considered fairly attractive, but my awkwardness was so extreme that it just made the situation worse. There's nothing more miserable than trying and failing to be something you are not. I suspect all he needs is a bit of time and some good friends.

He's tried the apps. Doesn't get any matches. He's at university and is hoping to meet someone through there.

He does sound lovely but he also sounds like he is ripe for being drawn into an incel community.

He needs to see women not as another species but as friends and people first and foremost. It almost comes across as if he is owed a hook up.

Any sports/interest clubs he can join. If he doesn’t enjoy the clubbing and partying side of it there will be plenty of other activities where he will hopefully meet people more on his wavelength.

It is unusual to not get a single match on any dating apps? Is he marketing himself well or coming across a bit desperate/woe is me?

He doesn't feel like he's owed one at all. He just sees other guys having success and wishes he was one of the popular guys

He sounds as though he needs to grow i to himself and who he is rather than growing out of being a clubber who is off his face.

He should enjoy his table tennis and interests. The right girl will.also enjoy them.

DD wasn't dissimilar: quiet, nerdy, not into clubbing. She joined a choir and footlights. She settled into herself and met her bf afyer uni. Lovely nerdy, musical chap.

DH was nerdy too. He joined the Conservative club and found his people.

There has been lots of good advice already. I’m surprised you wrote off the advice from “Balti man” just because he referred to drinking. I think the point he makes is about relaxing, and it’s well illustrated in that poster’s memories of how things changed for him - maybe worth re-reading that one.

I wonder if your son feels under any pressure to report to you on his “success” or lack of? Do you or he tend to start these conversations?

I wouldn’t brush off the poster referring incel culture either. At best, that encourages young men to see women as a sort of “opponent”, with rules of engagement to be learned and presumptions of failure made (somewhat self-pityingly) if you don’t have the requisite physical and social attributes. It’s reductive but it’s all over social media and he might have seen a bit too much of it. Worth asking some open-ended questions about black pill stuff and see if he’s heard of it, what he thinks, etc. It could be enlightening and might slightly change how he is coming at this.

I’d also recommend considering whether your role is to help him find a girlfriend, or to help him be positive and happy in himself and allow the rest to happen, good and bad - I don’t think doing the former is ultimately going to be helpful for him in life.

Jesus, not every bloke who gets a bit lonely and wishes he had a girlfriend is likely to turn into an incel. There's a fairly specific personality type who tend to end up going down that route

Really not that unusual for men unfortunately. There's a good few guys I work with who have absolutely no luck on the apps. Decent blokes, but usually a bit nerdy and not immediately physically attractive. They tend to end up single for decent stretches at a time before meeting someone in real life.

No he came up to me to talk about it.

He's not an incel. I know him. In 6th form he had a few lovely female friends. And even when he was heartbroken about someone he liked "getting with" someone else. He said "I know I'm not supposed to be upset over this. It's none of my business. It just hurts"

He's lonely, focusing on failure/success with women and feeling like an outsider. 20 years ago, fine. But his algorithms will be pulling into this stuff. I'm just saying it's worth being mindful.

I don't think she wrote off my advice, she just said the drinking bit sounded familiar is all

(As a side note, "Balti Man" sounds like the most awful superhero name ever!)

I'd be wary about bringing up incel stuff with him personally, no matter how subtly you do it, he's going to see it as further proof of his loser-dom at this point. I'd feel absolutely horrible if I'd confided in my Mum about something serious like this, and then got the impression that she thought I was some Andrew Tate loving misfit as a result. It would certainly make me less likely to confide in her in the future.

He's not an incel! Even in the summer he met up with school friends (some of which were girls)

He did meet up with the girl he really liked from 6th form and they had a had a lovely day out together.

Personally I felt lots of pressure to meet someone special at uni and I didn't. Not everyone meets their people at uni, I'm not in touch with any of them now. I'm in my 40s now and have brilliant mates. 18 is really young still. Also when I met my now H after uni he had never had a girlfriend or fooled around. He's not alone in this.

Poor guy. He sounds lovely.He just hasn't found his people yet. I don't know what the suggestion is because a lot of university revolves around this.Nonsense.

Can he join societies or clubs that he might meet more like minded people?

He does table tennis and a few other fun societies

This has surprised me. I’m a lecturer and have noticed a huge shift in recent years away from drinking. Suppose it must depend on the individual uni but we’ve all noticed it. Lots of SU social events, for example, are now intentionally alcohol free to be more inclusive. A lot of students also just seem less interested in drinking.

I’d encourage him to join in with more drink free SU events or get involved in societies.

You're half right I think.

Drinking among young people has dropped dramatically, but that doesn't mean there aren't still a huge amount of students out drinking. I do a pub quiz on a Wednesday night, in the only "proper pub" left on my cities main drinking street. Everything else is bars and clubs. Wednesday is also student night in most of those bars. So I tend to be leaving the pub around 11, just when Wednesday night is properly kicking off. And it's still plenty busy, with lots of very drunk 20 year olds about.

I think the people who would have been big drinkers if they were students 30 years ago, are still big drinkers now, whereas the ones like me who 30 years ago only went drinking or clubbing because everyone else did, now don't drink at all.

It sounds like OP's son has found himself friends with a group who enjoys clubbing and drinking, when he doesn't particularly. And finding people with interests more aligned with his may help him feel less alone, and make finding a girlfriend feel less important.

It may not help with actually finding a girlfriend though. Unfortunately a room full of slightly nerdy types playing D&D or stargazing or discussing Lord of the rings are less likely to find themselves copping off with each other than a room full of sweaty, dancing, slightly pissed people, even if they really want to be.

Even once I realised that I was attractive to women once they got to know me, it still generally took a dance floor and enough alcohol to get me out of my own head before I felt able to make a move.

I had a few male friends at uni who were like this, really nice lads but very geeky, they got nowhere with girls and would often latch onto someone that wasn't interested. I'm sure they did feel rejected but they did still enjoy nights out and they were part of various niche clubs and societies. They are all married with children now, they met their wives after uni doing mutual interests. Not all 18 year olds enjoy the bars/club scene or have success with women. Part of this is about finding his people, I'd say focus on doing what he enjoys and make friends that way, gfs might not come until much later.