The top 10% of taxpayers contribute 60% of income tax...

[MsPinkMarshmallow]

I'm fed up of hearing that "high earners" will be targeted by the next budget.

The top 10% of taxpayers pay 60% of income tax.

Don't piss them off. They'll just leave the UK or work less so they're taxed less.

Some more stats: in 2024-25, the top 1% of income tax payers earned 13.3 per cent of total income and paid 28.2 per cent of income tax

35% of adults in the UK pay no tax at all

More from the Taxpayers Alliance here:

https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/briefing_share_of_income_tax_paid_by_percentile

<stands back and awaits kicking>

some countries offer digital nomad visas where the tax rate is 20%

I think the UK system is an example of how the state always expands... and how people who are spending all their energy working and being productive are working so hard that don't realise how bad it's got and how utterly they are being screwed over.

Until a socialist government pushes it just a bit too far, and they look around. And then they realise. And then, they can stop.

Because when the government is handing out state money, they can choose to cut benefits because it is government money.

But when they're taking taxes, they can't choose to take more tax. Because it's our effort that makes that productivity. Not theirs.

I earn a good 6 figures and have done for the last 15 years or so. For the first time in my life I’m taking some tax advice. I’ve always just handed it over, but I’m not prepared to pay anymore. I’d rather hand it over to VCT’s and lose the lot than give anymore to Reeves.

I don’t blame you. If they remove the ability to put cash into pensions to reduce taxable income that will affect a lot of people.

And of course they've already made pensions subject to IHT from 2027 whereas they were outside estates previously.

they’re nuts.

I’m so interested in these stats too. I think they will be bigger than anticipated. We moved to Dubai last year, all our friends have been moving out too - to the US, Milan, Dubai. A lot of people who work in finance are Europeans who came here straight after uni when London (and New York) was the place to have a career. Now that London is in decline (as a financial centre and also in terms of practical things like crime increasing, healthcare failing) and taxes are going up those people are moving back to their home countries or to lower tax jurisdictions.

Isn’t part of the deal with paying a large amount of tax; that the government running the country is meant to provide basic services that work and a safe and clean environment for their citizens?

Such as?

It is still a crosssection of ‘people you know’ though who will naturally tend to certain types of groups.

I was recently talking to someone relatively senior in the civil service who was talking about them trying to decentralise jobs from permanent London bases to be able to get the top candidates they need.

There will always be individuals who will chase the money and be willing to work in places like Dubai (I wouldn’t for many reasons, nor would many of my friends or family) but there will also be many candidates and people who will not.

A relative of mine moved out to Dubai and all of her friends did (so she could say everyone was) but none of mine have and this too was the same over the years always people chasing the money. People living in places like Gibraltar tax havens that even they admitted were only worth it for a short time. Droves of people returning from Dubai post covid wanting the structure and community of home.

There will always be people chasing the cash and people that want the culture, class and other benefits of the UK.

A lot of high earners know that it’s not all about the money and still a kudos to living in the UK. There definitely is remaining snobbery around people going to Dubai, Gib, Bermuda in my Finance circles to chase the money. You just might not be aware of it as people don’t want to be rude but it’s seen as a bit classless and tacky unless it’s short term and you are very young

Well, you’d have thought, right?

That’s just income tax though. Thats about 25% of tax. When you look at all taxes the top 10% pay around 45%. Which is higher than their 35% share of income but ends up as around 39% tax rate. In comparison the lowest 10% of earners pay around 49% of their income in tax because their incomes are so low things like VAT & council tax hit them hardest.

the average post tax income of the richest 10% is £112,000 vs the poorest 10% on £9700.

so no, not too fussed about the high % of income tax they pay.

The UK has the highest outflow of liquid millionaires/high net worth individuals in the world. There’s been a greater outflow than inflow since 2016, and the UK is the only country in the G10 where this is the case. ‘They’ll leave’ isn’t an empty threat, it’s something that has been happening and is only accelerating.

It's £298 a month for ten months. Just shy of £3k. Probably not the same across Kent. Definitely sure aa the DD just came out.

It's <£60,000 actually.

of course it’s all anecdotal. Of course we should protect the vulnerable in society and those who can’t work and support themselves. But that’s not all the benefits system does - it also provides for people who don’t want to work and attracts people from all over the world. You can’t have high taxes AND failing public services AND lots of people cheating the system and expect that rich people who are highly mobile are just going to suck it up.

Many of us agree with you, and we have had enough of this wretched Labour government.

All the lies, the cheating, the incompetence.

Mitigate or emigrate - those are the two simple choices. Don’t pay a penny more in tax than you need to.

On MN, anyone claiming benefits is repeatedly told they “don’t have to justify it”, that it’s “your money to spend as you wish” and it’s no one else business. Also on MN, if you actually earn that money yourself, you are expected to justify it and how you spend it and a lot of people seem to believe it IS their business. You are also put down and patronised (it’s just “luck”, you must have had a privileged upbringing etc etc). Why the difference?
Oh and if you earn it, you are also expected to be delighted to have more and more of it taken from you. One poster yesterday stated that, in effect, she works FIVE MONTHS of the year for free, because that’s how much the government takes. It is lunacy.

I just saw this.

‘I know someone who lives completely on benefits and he said to me that he's in the Benefits Trap. I asked him, what do you mean by that? He replied that he would have to find a job that paid £44k to give him the same lifestyle that he now enjoys at the tax payer's expense. (I'm assuming that he's calculated the tax that would come off that figure, making it a net of nearer £30k - but that's just an assumption).

My son is working 40hrs a week on just over the minimum wage, earning about £20k a year. He pays taxes to keep people like this in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.
The benefits system is bust. It's not a safety net, it's a lifestyle choice. It needs to change’

This is what people don’t get. With all the top ups and extras people are entitled to, many are clearing “high earners, not a worker” salaries after deductions. People see 45k and divide by 12. They don’t account for tax, NI and other deductions. Then, everything must come out of it. You are actually not far off, not a worker salary, whilst on benefits, it’s nuts. All the excuse come out, like you can’t count UC for rent. Er why not? Do workers pay theirs with fairy dust?

I’d be worried as a benefit claimant right now. The fall out from this, I think will be phenomenal. People will just reduce their tax through behaviour. Can’t keep taking other people’s money when they stop willingly handing it over.

There was even a panorama programme on this. It is so embarrassing that the U.K. has come to be in this place.

We need a wealth tax.
I’d be quite happy for all billionaires to leave the UK.

DH and I each work 4 months of the year in servitude to HMRC. Not quite as bad as that poster, but still too much.

I was actually thinking about medieval serfs recently, and how we find it incredible that they worked for their Lords for free, and never questioned it because it was 'natural' and 'the way things are'.

A male serf worked 150 days for free, and in return they got their house, land to work, and the same kind of state services as we get, within the context of the time: defence from invaders, the rule of law, and medical help, such as it existed.

Female serfs had to hand over some of their productivity too, in the form of woven cloth.

DH and I only work 60 days for free, but we don't get a house or land.

1.Rent on a small 2-bed house in my area (ie equivalent to what a serf would have been given) would take another 40 days of our work - 20 days each. (we choose to pay more than that for a bigger house - but I count that extra cost against the part of our income we get to keep 'for us')
2.I suppose the equivalent of land is a working environment that allows us to be productive - but it isn't the government that provides that so it doesn't come out of my taxes. Its my employer - who takes their own (justifiable) cut of my productivity in return for that. Estimate their cut is about 10%? 23 days each.

103 days each (206 days total) for tax, basic housing and the means to be able to work really doesn't compare very well with the 150 days a serf had to work for the same.

And we think the UK is past it's feudal stage. That things are better now. Not for those of us forced to work free to support those who don't want to! It's just a different type of tyranny.

I would likewise be very worried if I was a benefit claimant. This whole system is about to collapse.

Um, no, they're most definitely not.
Benefit claimants are chastised, as is being illustrated on this thread, when many are actually too ill or disabled to consider paid employment, or are caring for a sick relative. The amount of benefit fraud which actually exists is pennies compared to what MPs and the super rich squander. Poor people are not the reason you feel hard done by, nor is their situation anyone's business other than those assessing the claim. Disclaimer - I don't claim any benefits whatsoever, and have paid plenty of tax over the years.

Utter bollocks.

https://taxjustice.net/press/millionaire-exodus-claim-backtracked-but-media-re-run-story-anyway/

And next time you post lies, have the grace to cite your lying sources.

Same here. Whatever the government can’t or won’t do, the IMF will, except 10 times more brutally. It seems inevitable.