If you are middle class do you feel your lifestyle is eroding?

[ceramicwitch]

Now I know that as long as we can afford to heat your home, pay your mortgage / rent and afford to feed yourself and your family you can't complain too much. However I am interested if you feel you used to have a a middle class lifestyle, able to afford nicer bits or activities if you feel that is being eroded?

I think I am feeling it, we used to be quite free with putting nice things in the basket at waitrose (not where we go all the time but where we get treats and more premium things) and not we are holding back quite a bit more. We usually go to the Theatre a few times a year and the ballet, especially at Christmas but this year we are giving it a miss due to ever increasing costs. We've stopped going to cafes if not on holiday.

I have good friends who live in quite an expensive part of town, He is a Doctor and they seemed to be quite oblivious to cost of living the past few years but the other day I was talking to him and he was saying how he doesn't much enjoy eating out these days as the cost of it sticks in his throat, even cheap and cheerful is quite pricy now.

Anyone else feeling that quality of life even for the supposedly well insulated middle classes is in decline?

Absolutely.

Taken our kids out of private school.
Putting off replacing a broken skylight
Resisting putting on the hearing
Won't be getting 2! Christmas trees this year
Budgeting much more for day to day necessities like the food shop and clothes.
Little things like the occasional lunch out or McDonald's for the kids are things I'm having to think about much more.
Not using local businesses quite as much as they're much more expensive than Amazon or the supermarket for example.

It's lots of little things just being chipped away.

And yes, boohoo, I have to budget my weekly shop, but when I've had a 11% payrise this year and DH a 4% rise and we STILL have to make cuts, then how on earth are others coping and how are local businesses meant to stay open?

Like others I find I'm less likely to take the kids out for lunch or an activity day because the prices seem very poor value. I count myself lucky because my work entails a lot of free food, a work car and fuel.

We had horrifically lean years when the dcs were little. As in,struggling to put food on the table. Recently,things had improved a lot and we were doing ok but now DH has had to stop work because of ill health,we will be back to counting pennies again.
We never eat out,its just too expensive and not good value. We get a takeaway once in a while, run one second hand car, no longer buy beef or fish and eat a lot more beans and lentils and home made soup. Massively cut back on alcohol and don't go to pubs or the cinema. Doesn't make for much fun as we head into our senior years.

Yet another thread where people assume that class is based on how much money you have.

I don’t really understand then why you said that a £60k party budget shows that some people’s middle class lifestyles aren’t eroding. Also, what does being middle-class indicate for you, if not wealth? For me, it suggests being comfortably off and able to afford the basics and treats, so it does indicate a level of wealth to me.

No, I feel that my lifestyle is where I want it to be because the last few years with the prices of absolutely everything going up has made me reflect on what value is and what I want to spend my money on e.g no to spending £100 a night for a double room in a 2* hotel in London and £4 for a cup of tea at an average cafe. Yes to nice occasional meals with great service, £27 on my monthly gym membership and £500 on the odd long weekend in a buzzy European city. I used to love going to the cinema once a week but films these days aren’t as good as they used to be so I can rarely justify the ticket and travel cost. In summary, I do less, willingly, and spend less so I’ve ended up with more money than before 2022 and have become a devoted saver. Appreciate it’s different when you have kids to support.

What is class based on, for you? I’m genuinely curious, as I’ve always thought class was linked to wealth and income.

No, we are solidly middle class, but not in the stretched ourselves to the limits sort of way. Our kids aren’t in private school. We don’t have new cars on finance. We aren’t going on multiple holidays a year.

We live a comfortable lifestyle. We have 3 cars, none of them new or on finance. We have a big house and land, but we took out a mortgage we could afford. We’re paying huge chunks of it off each year and should be mortgage free before mid 40s/50. Even when interest rates go up at the end of this term, we’ll be fine. I don’t ever think about how much I spend food shopping, but it’s not extravagant (usually £80-120 a week for the 4 of us). We go on camping holidays. We all have expensive hobbies (cycling, horses, kids are all in sports), but none of them beyond our means. My horse costs me like £300 a month, but I don’t have a £500 car payment or spend £200 on clothes (like maybe once every couple years 😂) or get my nails done or hair cut in a salon. If I couldn’t afford him, I wouldn’t have him.

So we haven’t felt it at all, but I think it’s because we have a lot of buffer. We’ve lost my salary for the past year because I had to leave work due to cancer treatment. But we weren’t scraping by on the bones of our ass on two incomes. In our 20s, yes, we would have been because we didn’t have the savings or the capital in place to survive. But late 30s/early 40s, a decent income (£100k+ with both of us working), and living within our means, we are doing fine thankfully.

Reading this thread and others like it you have to reckon that the restaurant trade must be in terminal decline. So many posters saying they don't go out to eat any more because the poor food and lacklustre service mean it's not a treat and the cost is no longer justifiable. I totally agree with that. Even pub grub now is a poor imitation of what it used to be and is ridiculously expensive.

Even if you can afford it, why would you? You just feel taken for a ride.

Your kids dont need alot at Christmas, and you can ask other people to.contribute to the food. Why should one bear all.the cost?

I guess I am middle class although I'm not really sure what that means anymore! We earn quite well and our kids have become pretty much financially independant in the last year or two so even though our mortgage has increased by £400 a month it hasn't affected us really (I did increase my hours at work which covered it though to be fair). I do spend more carefully but I am and have always been pretty frugal.

Alongside my part time job I run an online retail business and we have been much busier than normal this year. The items we sell would certainly be considered a luxury (as in not a necessity in any way shape or form) but after a dip in sales last year suddenly people are buying and buying a lot more than before. I find it confusing as I would have assumed the opposite would happen with the way things are right now.

I believe the British class system has many pillars, income and wealth certainly but also how you were brought up, who you socialise with, your job, the things you enjoy doing.

If my parents had suddenly been given £1m when I was a child we'd be very rich lower working class people. Same tastes, same attitudes, money would be spent on WC aspirations (holidays, entertainment, cars, jewelry) rather than MC aspirations (travel, investments, cultural experiences, DC education).

Similarly I know MC people with minimal incomes and they still have MC mindset, would go without food to send DC to private schools, entertainment is museums and theatre, still not afraid to spend money when needed because they grew up with a safety net. Expect to eventually get a good £1m inheritance.

BBC has a class calculator but it is highly skewed towards income.

Ironically our careers and income had never been better ( DH and I), but I know it could all stop suddenly and I have no confidence either of us would get back into decent work. So I feel guilty for spending and like I should save more.

I have never lived up to the living standard our household income would afford. I live like a student and instead of my OH lifting me up to his class level, I’ve dragged him down to mine. Because of this not much has changed. Still buy reduced food. Still buy second hand clothes and still scrimp and save.

@Fandango52 the wikipedia article is good on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_class

income and financial stability are part of it, but not only. Education level and job (profession) are significant too. As is cultural capital/life style, even taste.

But a lot of the traditional markers don't work anymore because of money and social mobility and some democratisation of education.

We cut our cloth 15 yrs ago due to a redundancy and kept our outgoings as low as possible since then. Our pay has risen in that time but we avoided lifestyle creep. This has helped us manage the last 5yrs of COL crisis without too much pain because we rarely ate out or had expensive hobbies or holidays.

I think you actually hit on the right word there "carefree" not necessarily excessive spending or lots of luxury but pretty much being able to afford what you want and need without worrying and having savings to cover emergencies. I agree you now need to be earning a lot more than just a few years ago to have that.

Only 50% of the population are actually working now - that number isn’t going to improve with an aging and increasingly unhealthy population. Someone has to pay for it - taxes will have to rise year on year, services are unlikely to improve - if they can keep pace we’ll be doing ok - I think we better get used to it.

Absolutely no meals out anymore (bar the odd fast food meal after sports events ie kfc or bk). Have stopped going to theatre (which I miss) - ticket prices are insane. Have found a ‘community’ cinema in a town about 40mins away that does tickets for £4 so if we want to see a film (to be fair not more than once a year!) we go there. I think externally people would assume we’re ’upper middle’ but we’re def not living the lifestyle😆

Our household income has quite literally trebled compared to ten years ago (DH was retraining for a long time and now has a job that pays a decent amount, though he pays an absolutely whopping amount of tax and we still have a lot of loans to pay off from his training).

Yet I actually feel like we’re no better off in terms of what we can afford day to day. We’ve actually cut back a lot on things like theatre trips, the odd night away, and so on. We almost never eat out now. I buy fewer clothes and little treats. We’re eating less meat and more cheap meals like tomato sauce pasta and noodles. We used to go away for a few days in Norfolk or Devon at the half terms and now we stay at home because the cost of a few days in a cottage is so much more expensive than it used to be. I’m quite astonished by it to be honest — if we are feeling like this even after a big jump in income, how can others be managing? 🤷‍♀️

The more money we seem to have, the less carefree I feel. Instability and uncertainty in the economy, and the fact that a lot of professional jobs will be mopped up by AI in the near-ish future make me think twice about spending, despite us now having a family income many times larger than 7 years ago.

Basically, even if you have a "good" job, I think it's time to make hay whilst the sun is still, somewhat, shining. God knows what the next decade will bring.

It's not really eroding. But it has eroded compared to if I had been in a similar role a couple/a few decades ago. I have a senior role that would have allowed me to look after a husband (though I guess in those days it would have been a wife) and kids, fund a big house, and frankly probably have kids in private school.

Now I have a very comfortable lifestyle but that's because I choose to live in a small house. If I was trying to run an entire household off my wage we'd be pretty tight, income wise. If I also tried to run a large house, we'd be in trouble.

No. But class isn't money. I'd say we've always spent fairlymodestly for a mc family. Also we live in NW England, so life is a bit cheaper. I do my food shopping in Aldi (and a few bits in Booths) because I like buying whatever I fancy without thinking about the pricr.

Thanks - I’ll give it a read.

Yep; I earn more than I ever thought I would, and we’re fortunate that allows dh to work PT so he can cover school holidays etc, but we don’t seem well off (appreciate that it’s totally subjective) The cost of everything has gone up and despite two decent pay rises in 3 years, we have less in our bank account at the end of the month than we did, and we now do a lot less

Similar to pp, I refuse to pay high prices for a mediocre meal out for us all at a standard chain restaurant, and always take packed lunch to days out - local NT type place close to us was charging 6.50 for a kids cheese sandwich! I take my dad out for a coffee at nero and don’t get change from £15 if we both have coffee and cake. If dh and i want to do a treat meal out for anniversary etc somewhere decent, it’s 120+ babysitting costs, it just seems v hard to justify it

I appreciate costs, wages etc have all gone up, but my wages have not kept pace. I’m trying to whack spare cash into pensions and isas as I worry about what will happen when / if lose my job (I’m near to 50 and my industry is known for getting rid of older ppl)