DS wants to do PHD - funding question

[FishermanBib]

DS finished his 3-year Maths degree in June, did very well, and is now doing a Masters. We’re hugely proud of him and fully supportive, but we hadn’t anticipated still supplementing his loan and covering accommodation costs at this stage. It now looks likely he’ll want to move onto a PhD.

I know these are often funded, but not always, and before we sit down with him to talk about finances I’d like to hear from others how this usually works in practice. Do students generally support themselves through this stage, or do parents still contribute? We also have a younger DS just starting uni, so the overlap is stretching us.

DD got a stipend and funded herself from that, also worked PT right through from her degree. We gave her money for birthday and Christmas. DD moved home for her last year to save money. It’s a sacrifice, but worth it.

Don't even think about doing a PhD if it's not fully funded. For maths, there should be enough funded places around.
When I did it you got a stipend that was about equivalent to minimum wage, so more than you'd had as an undergrad and enough to live on if you were frugal, although I imagine costs have gone up faster than the stipend since then. Most people topped it up by taking on teaching jobs at the uni.

He may be able to get some teaching/marking/research supervision work at the university where he does his phd
Also, sign up for updates from https://www.jobs.ac.uk/ Many funded PhD opportunities advertised on there.

There's the postgraduate loan scheme
https://www.gov.uk/funding-for-postgraduate-study

My DD had to teach as part of her contract, so she didn’t want to do extra for money. She did marking of papers, and that was good money.

I agree with this.
The competition for a fully funded PhD can be tough, but I think that can also help the student to focus their mind and be really clear about what and why they are doing it.

Yeah, once you have your first degree, it’s about finding and convincing the providers that your idea deserves funding. Not easy, but otherwise it is straying into a vanity project like self publishing a book and thinking you are an author. #adulting

You must be so proud that he has done so well. However he will be 22 I presume by the time he finishes his masters. Old enough to have an adult conversation explaining that you cannot bankroll a PhD and another undergrad course simultaneously, in fact tell him it is already tight for you. Ask him how he plans to fund it? Teaching, marking, other part time jobs are a possibility as presumably is stepping into the world of work for a while and doing a PhD at a later date. Living in the world of academia bubble can’t go on for ever.

Most PhD students have funding of some kind that covers their living costs. It's possible to self-fund but not really advisable.

He will be able to search funded PhD opportunities by subject interest on the findaphd website or the PhD section of jobs.ac.uk The current ukri stipend rates are around 21k which I believe you get tax free. Funded places won’t have fees either. Depending on what his interests are, there will be a lot of opportunities advertised over the coming months as a lot of the engineering and physics research council funded places will take people with a maths degree.

It’s an option to do a PhD part time and work if funding isn’t available. PhD funding is increasingly competitive and it seems more applicants need a distinction at masters when applying (although still worth trying during the masters). You can get a loan for the fees if not funded too. Although funding is a much better option I’ve supervised many part time students who have thrived but they tend to already be working in their careers and not 22. Depends how much he wants it and what he plans to do with it.

I did a masters in the late 80s and a doctorate int the early 90s as a mature student (40s). I funded the first year of the masters myself from tutoring at the uni, research work for my prof and FE teaching. Then I came back with a really strong research proposal which won me a 3 year studentship from the uni. So I was able to finish my masters and begin my P.h.D. I then won state funding to complete the doctorate which I did within the 3 funded years. It is very unusuakl to complete a doctorate in 3 years - most postgrads take 3-5. I was childfree which helped.

All the time I was a postgrad at the uni I earned extra through tutoring which was quite common back then for postgrads. I was a mature student which meant I got a bit extra from the funding bodies because i had worked in an approved profession. My rent was very low because I got a council flat in a "difficult to let" estate then later moved to a better area when it was demolished.

Most of the RG unis have what they call "studentships" which are awarded on a competetive basis to outstanding postgrad students. There are also state funded studentships which are also awarded on a competetive basis. Your son will need a very strong research proposal and a good result in his masters to stand a chance. A 1st in the undergraduate degree is also an advantage. I would also caution that back in the 1990s there were still realistic prospects of employment in accademia but this is no longer true. You son should realistically ask himself what he wants to do with a Ph.D. I worked til state pension age then went into self employed consultancy. I stll do some private tutoring at postgrad level.

Mine funds herself totally with the stipend ( doesn’t count towards tax) and additional work in the dept - teaching and research assistant work

He should contact potential supervisors at several universities and ask for potential topics and what funding is available. Ideally he applies in January and will be considered for scholarships the university has available. For home students usually the funding comes from the university/supervisor. The competition is fierce though in most places and is sometimes university wide.

Every situation is different. I would absolutely encourage him to look for a studentship (funded place) with a supervisor who he really connects with. The relationship with the supervisor and how much they connect over their research is really important. I wouldn’t take a place just because it’s funded if the supervisor isn’t supportive.

Mine was mostly funded. Some years it wasn’t fully funded, but then I’d find a little pot of money (£3k or so) that would make up the shortfall. I had a research job part-time to fund my living costs, but my family did help with things like rent because I lived in a very high cost area.

I’m doing a PhD in the arts and humanities so quite different however I’m fortunate to be funded. I wouldn’t have done it otherwise. The stipend is minimal if you are having to pay rent etc although it isn’t taxed which is good and most postgrads will teach or pick up research assistant jobs. Is he looking to move into academia? As a parent I wouldn’t want to financially support a DS or DD all the way from undergrad to doctorate, so would query the larger objective. I have come across some who see a PhD following directly from degree and masters as an escape from the big bad world. At the same time I expect that there are good career opportunities in a STEM career field and he could be onto a good thing.

Some excellent advice from posters upthread about the relationship with the doctoral suervisor. I had mine sorted while still an undergrad because I had formed relationships with influential academics in the department. However as an older postgrad I had a very different relationship with the academics than a 22 year old wouldhave. I had come in from a management job in local government and treated the academics as equals, and not gods. I was also very political about forming advantageous relationships, getting myself onto committees and contributing in various ways to the department, The result was that I did all my degrees in the same RG university and then went on to work there. I was also offered a years teaching exchange to the USA which added considerably to my CV. Networking is just as important as being a good researcher

I got a studentship for mine so could self fund. Most people do it this way, or a combination of stipend and part time job.
I wouldn’t expect parents to be funding it.
He will need to talk to the university now about applying, and look at other universities too for funded PhDs - the process is a lot more like applying for a job than applying for a degree

A masters is the expensive often self-funded bottleneck. He should use the remaining time on the masters to network hard and find potential supervisors, for example by going to conferences where people whose work he’s interested in are presenting, and chat them up. Then definitely only do a PhD with funding. If he has some good contacts of people who would like to supervise him and will help him apply for funding then it doesn’t matter if it takes a few goes and a couple of years to get funding in place.

Bluntly, he should not do a doctorate if he can’t successfully compete for a funded place.

Absolutely not the norm to have parents fund you through a PhD in any way. Make it clear you absolutely support him going for it if he can get it funded. Most people would work as well to top up the stipend.

DS did a Humanities PhD and was funded but without a stipend. We helped with living costs but could well afford it and that allowed him to do it in three years.

The Humanities in the UK are decimated. He got a post doc (v v lucky) and then a fixed term lecturer role. He has now left the UK and again was v v lucky to get a job at an overseas university.

So much of applying for a doctorate successfully is not related to academic potential but to class background, whether your family know how higher education works, soft skills and whether you have a decent mentor. So I strongly disagree with this statement, but do agree that parents shouldn’t be funding phds.

Oh worth knowing that as long as basic costs are covered it will be very easy for him to top up with marking and teaching once he’s there.

Is he living at home or renting? If he doesn’t get funding he would have to pay university fees as well bear in mind. Given that you’re supporting another DC and that that is quite naturally a stretch already I would not be supporting him into a doctorate if he can’t get funding. The stipend for PhDs is minimal in any case and the cost of living is having an impact.

This can be dependent upon factors such as whether the university is an easy commute. Teaching a module can have a heavy workload of marking and admin too.