To think state pension needs to be means tested , most sill claim way more than put in due to life expectancy. The current simply can't afford it anymore, it's out biggest single outlay..

[wishedforchild2016]

Aibu ?. Interested hear opinions for/against..

I think that the super rich should be paying tax. They're not and that's why the country is bankrupt. But let's blame pensioners and benefits scroungers.

@CurlyhairedAssassin what was what?

Surprised by the strength of feeling on here. Do you think people with (private) incomes of 100k in retirement should get the state pension? Why?

If the UK if people have not bothered to pay in the government just gives them pension credit which is worth about the same as pension.

But you pay into the current system. It's not a savings scheme. Your contributions go towards current pensions, as well as maternity pay, bereavement pay, NHS contributions.
Society functions because those who can pay in support those who can't.

I firmly believe in means testing state pensions.
I saw my grandparents living hand-to-mouth in their (very short) retirements because they had worked low-skilled, low-pay, manual jobs and had no savings. In contrast to that, my parents don't need it. They have private pensions, have climbed the property ladder and have many hundreds of thousands in savings. It's ridiculous that they get the same as someone equivalent to my grandparents.

I think that the super rich should be paying tax.

They are mobile generally and you need global initiatives to target them. Or a wealth tax but that's not popular.

👏👏

No chance! I haven't been working my arse off since I was 18 and paying NI and taxes to then get paid less state pension because I've amassed savings and property along the way.

Those claiming this is anti-pensioner, it really isn’t. Any changes should be phased in, so really it is younger people taking the hit (again). Saying the current system is unaffordable is just stating facts, and as someone mid 40s I just want some certainty while I still have time to plan accordingly. I also want a system that is fiscally sustainable for my children once they start working.

personally I think we need to force people to save more from the start towards retirement, and then state support should be a stopgap for those that didn’t manage to earn enough over a lifetime.

The notion that the more you put in results in more being paid out is literally the opposite of what our tax system does.

Pay a reasonable amount of tax and you lose child benefit.

Pay a lot of tax and you lose access to funded childcare hours and tax free childcare savings.

The more you put into the pot, the less you are permitted to take out. I have no issue with people earning more having to pay more tax but that should still result in access to the same services others benefit from.

It would however be a great way of limiting the cost of DB pensions schemes, and accelerating their closure :). And forces a debate at just what level of income should people still be in receipt of benefits

It also, as I said, needs simplification of the tax system, with, in my view, an outcome of tax efficient pensions/savings up to a certain level, with people then saving out of taxed income. HMRC has a big and growing issue with the level of not only pensions but isa investments that sit outside of all income and cgt. That needs to change for a sustainable future.

Sure, being able to shelter £1m or £2m (or even more not the LTA has gone) tax free across pension and ISAs is nice, but is it sustainable? For amounts higher than whatever the limit should be, we will just have to save out of taxed income and pay tax on the returns. At the end of the day it’s a nice problem to have…

Are you suggesting a cull of pensioners?

It's going to happen by default which is what scares me. Assisted dying is meant to be the dignified approach but didn't Wes say it wasn't affordable.

The NHS cannot cope so for many it's private or years of waiting.

Except, almost everyone else will have had the same ‘why should I bother’ attitude and then everyone can be in the shit together - hooray! 🙄

If it was, I think I’d spend my 50s going on holiday so I actually get to benefit from my saving rather than spend it all on basics that others get for free who didn’t save. Punishing people for making sound financial decisions doesn’t seem sensible to me.

You claimed it was more affordable - it isn’t.

@Tryingtokeepgoing the tax system is far to complex and unequal as you say.

The IFS did a recent podcast on benefits and they talked about contributory, means tested, universal etc. and what the merits of each type are, what attitude they foster in society and what behaviour they incentivise. It was interesting… if you’re into slightly dry topics like this (which I am).

here it is - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ifs-zooms-in-the-economy/id1511294104?i=1000729726945

If you’ve got a private pension of £100k you are only going to get 40% of a state pension anyway as you pay an effective 60% tax on the next £25k, which more than sweeps up the state pension.

Do you really not understand the societal reasons some people end up earning less than others? Why some people can work themselves to the ground and they'll still never be able to work their way up to a high income?

So we work hard, pay tax all our working life that pays for people that can’t be bothered to work, or can’t work, then at the point we retire we are cut off. What and why?

We actually have quite a progressive tax system compared to other European countries. An average earner here pays much less tax than an average earner in France, for example. Our taxes are mainly levied on high earners (although I think the top rate is higher in many European countries).

The issue with taxing the super rich is that there aren’t many of them and it’s easy to become resident elsewhere.

It is still the lowest, by far, in Europe. It is not a lot to live on by any measure and many coming up to retirement are from an era of paltry private sector pensions. The real issue is public sector pensions, which we are all subsidising. They should apply an upper limit for a start.

Me too. Same tine.

@preparingforthepileon can you summarise? I struggle with podcasts.

The Greater Good....🙄🙄