To think state pension needs to be means tested , most sill claim way more than put in due to life expectancy. The current simply can't afford it anymore, it's out biggest single outlay..

[wishedforchild2016]

Aibu ?. Interested hear opinions for/against..

What do you want them do to - sell their home to fund their own care in their own home? Oh, wait...

@Callipygion thanks for sharing that

The state has no money of its own and current tax payers fund current state pension. At the moment that means that tax and NI of low or middle rate earners are paying to fund state pension for those who have no or low private or occupational pension and those who have not accrued sufficient NI through working but have full credits as working as a family carer or in receipt of additional pension credits.

They are also funding state pension for those in a secure financial position with owned outright property, private pensions, savings and other assets

Do you think it is fairer for today’s tax payers to pay toward a benefit the already wealthy don’t need because they paid into ‘the system’ (equality) or to pay toward a benefit needed to meet the essentials of living for those less advantaged. Since when did the wealthy who can afford to fund themselves start to believe that they were entitled to receive benefits intended to level the playing field?

46 years of full NI, worked in charities, organisations that did not have pensions as only recently compulsory, have struggled on salaries that failed to reflect roles, state pension is necessary for me / my age. If the model changes, employment will be chosen on salary/ contributions to a pension and it will result in competition in some areas and in others employers finding ways to mitigate the contributions. It will also keep people in roles for fear of poverty. Maybe if more worked and contributed, and Labour in a previous administration had held onto our gold reserves, we'd not be in this state! We are increasingly asking for many to pay in to a state bank by working and being taxed and then never being able to get anything out as a withdrawal and that's not fair!

Just some myth busting from a social care perspective.
Myth 1.) everyone over the age of 65 has worked hard
There have always been people who have not worked, there’s always been women who have stayed home, there’s always been people in social housing. I have met many pensioners who talk openly about being given the chance to buy their council house but ‘not bothering’ preferring to keep the council around to fix things and maintain their property. There’s always been people too mentally unwell or physically unwell to work. There’s always been difference is we have far, far, far less accessible jobs now. You could have a learning disability and work in a pit or a factory but it is really really difficult to find work if you have LD now.

Myth 2: you either self fund your care when you’re old or you have it for free.
Not true, you are assessed and if you need a care home you will have all of your income taken (benefits etc) leaving you with £30 a week and the mobility element of PIP if you qualify.

Myth 3: You are either a benefit claimant or you’re a hard worker
Without tax credits, I would not be a social worker right now. I got tax credits which paid for childcare so I could go back to work after maternity to work as a healthcare assistant which allowed me to be eligible for a bursary. Had I not had that, I would have only returned to work when my child started school and missed out on 5 years of earnings/ experience/ pension. People are shortsighted to imagine that you’re either a ‘net contributor’ or scrounging scum. It’s not realistic to imagine everyone is a net contributor before they have children. Who would be in hospitals or cafes or pubs or work in nurseries?

I hate this rhetoric that wealth equals hard work. My ex boss’s daughter got a job through her mum at 17 earning 35K. She didn’t work that much harder than me on 18K, quite the opposite. People are rich due to capitalism not their own blood and sweat. I can assure you that a hospital OT works harder than Jeff Bezos. I’m just about to log on to do my four hours of overtime which I routinely do on top of a 48 hour week. Therefore means testing is fair.

So I have scrimped and saved my whole life and continuing to do so now. For my mortgage, pension, working hard.

Now you want to take it off me for the poor people who didn't have it in them to progress at work, or save?!

I’m late 40s now (good grief, when did that happen?) and have been paying into a stakeholder pension since I got my first opportunity to do so in 2002. I’ve always prioritised it and when I met my DH I put him through a money makeover and got him saving into a pension too.

My plan and my hope is to pay our mortgage off (for various reasons still have 19 years to go) and have done our best to save for pension, but, honestly, the state pension as it is now is still an incredibly important part of our pension planning.

If DH and I lost that we’ll have a very different retirement. I’m already realising we probably won’t be able to afford a dog, or holidays or a car!

I realise change needs to happen so we pay a tiny amount into stakeholder pensions for our DC and will be encouraging our DC to save for retirement as soon as they are earning.

I already advise all young women I meet to start and (never stop!) paying into a pension!

I feel the same. To have an equivalent of the state pension you would need to have save 300k minimum. Thought scrimping and saving I have not got here yet.

Like you, the state pension is part of my pension planning.

@CurlyhairedAssassin why not put a charge on it with a deferred payment agreement. They can do this for care out of the home so not particularly radical. Maybe you have not heard about it though...

@Callipygion yeah it's another thing that doesn't exist for younger generations.

But if everyone worked their alloted years, then surely that would be fair?

What about if you’re ill?

I worked to 57 and then became too ill to work anymore. I have paid my 35 years though.

Same here.
I did some rough calculations, and to “replace” the state pension by building my own savings or pension pot, I’d need to put aside about £1K every month for the next 20 years.
I can’t. Probably the “we can’t afford state pension” crowd can.
Also (and this really matters) ageism absolutely exists. I don’t think many employers are exactly lining up to hire or keep people in their 60s…

I would not be happy seeing OAP homeless and starving to death. There are many reasons someone might not have paid in for all the years. People can also pay in to private pensions if they like . Pension credit is like the minimum

You will likely be fine. As will the other poster who has been paying NI since 1979. It's more people who haven't retired yet. Spending on pensions will rise year on year as the population gets older. You can mitigate this by raising the age of retirement. Which will happen. But then means some people will be relying on disability payment rather than a pension if they get sick at 65. Which is one reason it's quite annoying to see some pensioners talking about how we need to cut disability payments etc. If you are 65 now and infirm you are a deserving elderly pensioner whose worked their whole life etc etc. By the time I'm 65 I would be a working age "drain" on finances if I have identical health issues. Even though I will also have paid in all my life. And if it's not fair to punish working age 65 year olds who are ill through no fault of their own why is it fair to punish 35 year olds?

Rather than making pensions means tested (no incentive to save) they could raise inheritance tax to get some of the money back. Or wealth tax. Or property tax. But there needs to be some fair way of funding all this which isn't just punishing those that can't work (whatever their age) or punishing lower earners. And there's a limit on how much you can raise income tax without punishing working people so much they can't save for their own retirement. In the interim income tax has to rise but you can't rely on that long term.

Or we allow much higher migration than currently to offset the aging population. But that will squeeze house prices more and we don't have infinite space (not to go all small boats). Plus the public mood is calling for the opposite.

But until we have a grown up convo about the consequences of people living longer and how to mitigate those consequences in the fairest way possible we will carry on rearranging the deckchairs by blaming migrants/single mothers/disabled people/children with ADHD/insert demon group of choice.

The good news for you is you are likely to live longer than any of your ancestors did and likely have a more comfortable life. So yay progress.

Why should middle income workers be paying towards the parasites living costs in old age but get nothing themselves?

I don't think making pensions means tested is a good idea. I do think other age related benefits -bus passes, winter fuel payments etc should be means tested. Where you put the limit matters, but I don't think RR was wrong to make winter fuel payments means tested I. Principle. Regardless of the "freezing grandma" criticisms. It's difficult because it's taking something away people have now. But if you are well off you don't need those perks. Poorer pensioners do.

intended to level the playing field

The state pension isn’t intended to level the playing field.

It's intended to be a way for people to pay in during their working life and then use that accrued benefit as income through their non-working old age.

It's a travesty that people who have never contributed get it.

Only if there’s the option to opt out of it completely. I’ve paid for every penny of my state pension. I wouldn’t even mind contributing a bit more ‘for the greater good’ but to remove something I’ve been paying into since I was 18 is unsupportable. It would be political suicide too.

Not much busting but creating a new myth -a lazy asserton that the the hospital OT works harder than Jeff Bezos his can you possibly know that? The OT goes home at the end of the day and watches TV. Running s business is 24/7 responsibility. Not to mention that Jeff Beaus has created job opportunities for thousands, all of while are posting tax and contributing to society. And made love considerably easier for many of us purchasers, paying VAT. And giving access to a worldwide market for small businesses. How many have benefited from the hospital OT.

For anyone planning on inheriting part of their partner's state pension, the rules are extremely complex and depend on when they died and how their pension is made up. Even if you can inherit part of it, it's not just paid to you as an additional amount, it's added to your own pension calculation. If you were ever contracted out under the old scheme this will result in a reduction in the state pension you receive in your own right. You will still get an overall uplift but it won't be £ for £.

Yes, that is quite a laughable assertion that a hospital OT works harder than Jeff Bezos 😂

And well done for calling it out - these myths - that salary reward is inversely proportional to hard work - have become so embedded in the narrative that you can let them slip by. A narrative that the Left seems to have perniciously seeded to justify stealing the financial rewards that people have earned through their own skill and effort.

For the record, absolutely no one becomes as successful in creating a business as Jeff Bezos without utterly sacrificing their life to it with an energy and dedication that would have any salaried employee running for the hills. Absolutely no question.

Many lower and middle paid employees - including in the NHS and social services - do the job and no more. Some higher-paid employees do too, but you don't get above £100k without some seriously hard work somewhere along the line.

There's luck, yes. But also talent. And always, always prolonged hard work.

Maybe on that basis OP paying NI should be optional...🙄

Why should people who have worked all their lives fund those that don't work and then not even be able to draw their state pension at the end of it?

You can't keep hitting the same people with taxes and penalties for having worked all their lives and saved.

The point is Jeff frontloaded the hard work and then he outsourced it to other people.
The OT will always work hard. There will never be an option for them to not work hard and get other people to do their job for them.
That’s the pyramid scheme quickly people wake up to it and then you can either make it work for you or be pissed off about it

You’ve had your money what don’t you understand about that?