Why does Palestine bring out such strong feelings?

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I really don’t want this to become about individuals’ feelings about the conflict. There are plenty of threads for that.

I am interested in why Palestine provokes such a strong feelings about civilian in Britain. We didn’t see weekly marches and such intense, passionate feelings regarding any other conflicts over in, say, the past ten years (Yemen, Syria, Afghanistan, Sudan, Congo, Somalia, and, of course, Ukraine). These all involve thousands of civilian casualties caused by conflict.

What is it about Palestine in particular that causes British people to feel so passionately about it?

Someone said to me today that, for them, it was the most pressing political issue. They have never even mentioned any of the other conflicts above. It got me thinking about it. If you care greatly about what happens in Palestine, why Palestine and not the other conflicts?

Please don’t come on and say you care about them all. It might be true but there is no doubt that the reaction to what’s happening in Palestine in Britain is much greater than the rest, which barely cause a murmur.

Because Hamas and their western allies were extremely organised. Many of the other current conflicts involve genuinely persecuted people, they don't have access to the resources to conduct a coordinated social media campaign like Hamas.

Propaganda videos and marches were organised and ready to go the moment October the 7th happened. And have been relentless ever since. Before Israel could take a breath to process the rape and murder of entire families, the videos started flooding out. The intelligent would have spotted the repeat actors in these videos (one man was particularly prolific - He went from a grieving father, to a teacher, to a doctor, to a grieving father of a different family etc.) and that some of these videos were from different conflicts/wars/children with medical conditions predating the war).

Exactly why people thought Hamas were the trustworthy ones, I have no idea. When terrorists state and act as though child casualties are desirable for the cause, I struggle to understand how many people fell for obvious propaganda. Hamas just pulled huge casualty numbers out of its arse suspiciously quickly, and each time people were quoting them as fact. Despite that if they were true, the whole palestinian population would have died twice over by now.

Never mind that the numbers (reported 20000 children out of nearly three million) clearly are in line with the usual but still sad civilian casualties of a war. And not even the highest in the current conflicts going on on the world.

If you genuinely believe Israel was attempting genocide, why were they so bad at it? With their military capabilities the deaths could easily have numbered in the millions if they had wanted to.

I think the social media aspect is spot on.

The statistics are easy to find online. In the first 18 months of Russia attacking Ukraine something like 600 children were killed and around 1,500 injured.

Compare that same timeframe to Israel’s war on Palestine. Since the start 50,000 children have been killed or injured.

Because we’re told to

Google 'barrel bombs' and get back to me.

Statistical and numbers are very easy to find online. Their veracity though is very hard to determine.

Most reliable and unbiased estinates put child casualities at around 20000. Out of nearly three million under 18's in Palestine.

Horrific, but less than many other conflicts, including some happening right now. And one might argue surprisingly low given it is an area run by terrorists who have openly stated they wanted children to die and be martyrs.

www.savethechildren.net/news/gaza-20000-children-killed-23-months-war-more-one-child-killed-every-hour

Exactly this, i read the same article. I do not believe that thousands of Brits would be out marching and protesting no matter how much coverage the wars in the DRC and the horrific impact on women and girls and boys. There is no Congo Action leading the charge, or outraged students / leftists protesting / flyering etc . Because in their simplistic world Israel is a very clear ‘baddie’ so they are safe to protest against them. It’s a bit more complicated when the goodies and the baddies look the same.

This is an interesting thread, but if it wasn't before, the OP's agenda is pretty clear from this post. Most people would say that the first thing the people of Gaza need is for food aid to be let in and to stop being bombed, before anything else.

Obviously in one sense the answer is - how could anyone not be outraged about Gaza given the amount of horrific suffering we are seeing. But the question as to why there is such low awareness of other conflicts is interesting.

Personally, I think the answers are a combination of:

The deluge of information on mainstream news and social media both about horrors and cruelty and also content that is very personal and relatable - videos of kids etc.

The fact that people feel that our government is apathetic to the suffering and could put pressure on Israel to help stop it if they chose, so believe that protesting in the UK could actually achieve something. Other crises and injustices feel more distant from UK policy choices or we are already helping, e.g. Ukraine.

A pre-existing Palestine solidarity movement that has had plenty of fuel to keep it going well before 7th October, e.g. the Israeli government supporting the expansion of illegal settlements across the West Bank.

Anti-US sentiment on the left. Everyone talks about anti-semitism but I think negative views against US imperialism is a way bigger thing, older people on the left have grown up with this narrative of the US in the 20th century supporting coups against democratically elected governments, then invading Iraq etc. It all fits into that narrative - Israel as a proxy for the US.

Limited emotional capacity - there's so much to worry and be sad/outraged about in the news, it's overwhelming. Few people seek out issues which are terrible but aren't being covered as much to inform themselves.

I think we are culturally closer to people in Gaza than e.g. Uyghur Muslims in China and there is a little bit of underlying racism when it comes to suffering in Africa - it's just sort of expected that Africa is a place where horrible things happen so it's not as shocking. Which is grim but I think is how people feel.

@justanotherpassword leaving aside the fact that Hamas’ definition of children includes combatants, obviously a major reason why civilian and child casualties are high in Gaza is because unlike in other conflicts, civilians are prevented from accessing the extensive network of underground tunnels or leaving, via the Egyptian border.

That's such an excellent post, thank you.

I agree with @Icebreakhell regarding the amount of media coverage. When I first read the OP title I thought what a silly question, but then I read your actual post OP and it’s actually a sensible question, because it does provoke stronger feelings than atrocities happening in other places, you’re right!

Media coverage has to be a large element because you never see news articles about the other wars and atrocities. I guess ignorance is bliss and all. I think people know bad things happen in many places but it’s not mainstream.

I also think it’s because two opposing sides are fighting for land they feel belongs to them. Land that’s considered particularly holy and if extreme significance to both sides.

Take Ukraine for example at some point that will come to an end. It’s happening because of one rogue dictator and once he’s out of the picture then hopefully it will get back to normal. Palestine/Israel it’s so ingrained and deep and both sides hold such strong views that it’s impossible to keep everyone happy because it’s so emotive. I don’t see it the same as Ukraine

Yes, I noted the repeated use of particular actors, particularly in the first year (I haven’t bothered looking at the videos since). Men and women actors. The propaganda was insane. Hamas knew what they wanted to achieve from the off and they achieved it. They wanted the world on their side. The side of terrorists.

Also, if you can reduce the understanding of a conflict to a brief slogan or an easy chant, it can take on a life of it's own. It's quite masterful really, concerning a very complicated geo- political conflict.

you need to check who is bombing Yemen. The Saudis. Who supplies arms to the Saudis? The British.

Yes, @SugarPlumpFairyCakes global arms supply is quite the thread to unpick! I think the complexity is rarely understood.

Ignoring the people posting 'it's all fake news from Gaza produced by Hamas'...

I think it's fine and sensible to say 'we should do more about other terrible things in the world'. Personally I think climate change should be number one on that list because stopping that would reduce the amount of starvation and conflict in the future and we are screwed unless we do.

But I think it's a bit shitty to tell people that they shouldn't try and stop suffering and death in one place because you think too many people are too concerned about that particular issue and it would be better to go home and do nothing. And I always wonder how many people making the 'what about' argument are themselves actively campaigning, fundraising etc. for the people of Sudan or Yemen or DRC.

The best way for the Israelis to get more support would be to stop the genocide. It is not anti-semetic to be anti-genocide.

Well I’m personally not doing anything about anything, other than watching in horror. The OPs question (at face value) is: what motivates people to get out and protest about this atrocity (in Gaza) and not all the others (in DRC, in Sudan etc) when, comparatively speaking, they are all utterly horrific. She’s not asking anyone to stop protesting - she’s asking: why this one, and not that one?

Which leads to - who writes those algorithms and why aren’t other wars being brought to the forefront by those algorithms in the same way?

Multiple reasons, these are just a few:

1. Balfour Declaration is effectively the foundation which led to the creation of a Jewish ethnocracy. That was a British declaration, & an ethnocracy is not a type of state we'd accept anywhere else because it is literally created to enforce apartheid with people of 1 religion/ethnicity & no ties to the place (for example cannot prove even any great great grandparent ever lived there) having rights over someone who had all great grandparents born there but is the 'wrong' religion/race.

2 - In the 2 years around the declaration of the state of Israel at least 750k of a population of 1.9 million Palestinians were violently removed from their lands & homes. So they're not the only people this happened to but for 40% of a population to be made refugees in such a story time is highly unusual.

1. The state of Israel consistently is found to be violating international law but the USA backs it up at every turn, again not unprecedented but highly unusual
2. People who are Christian/Muslim/Jewish/Bahai or of that heritage feel a connection to the Holy Land. That's a huge part of the population here.
3. Currently it's a genocide in real time. Just yesterday the people from one of the freedom flotillas arrived back in Europe /US & have featured on tv talking about being tortured. So imagine how much worse it is for the native population.
4. The human rights abuses there have long been observed & recorded by groups like Amnesty & by multiple governments & citizens.
5. The 750k refugee population now numbers about 6 or 7 million people who are still displaced & without citizenship anywhere. Again this is highly unusual.

Clearly it’s anti Semitism.
These frothing at the bit anti Israel racist types don’t get upset about any other conflict.

💰💰💰

Yes, exactly this.
It’s because this conflict involves Jews and the world has always despised Jews. It’s basic antisemitism.

I think alongside the use of social media to personalise Palestinians in new ways we've not seen in other conflicts, the outrage with the conflict has been stoked and encouraged by media and other institutions for decades and both the Israeli and Palestinian governments treat the conflict in very different ways compared to other governments.

With American media sources, there is also the connection to American Evangelical groups who after being politicised decades back (it's odd to think now, but they used to be apolitical/think it inappropriate to get involved in worldly politics) have openly discussed their view that this conflict is part of the end times and actively encourage the reporting, the outrage, anything that gets it attention as part of their worldview. They largely don't care about other conflicts beyond the whole 'wars and rumours of wars' as a sign of the end times, and so their power and emotional investments aren't there.

There is also a lot of financial and personal investment by wealthy people of all stripes within this conflict. Many large companies are in Israel, Israel has been quite favourable to those companies as long as they follow their rules. That fuels a lot of the media and other institutions in ways that can't be matched in other conflicts. And that's before getting into people who are directly making profit from it that is significantly more than other conflicts - there is selling of expensive weapons to both sides, where as if we look at horrors happening in Nigeria, that isn't there.

The investment by the Nigerian government and other powers to have the conflicts portrayed in particular ways isn't there in the way it is for Israel or for Palestine, if anything most other governments downplay the conflicts within their borders to keep the appearance of control. Both Israel and Palestine amplify and shout the horrors of the other side, they seek that backing from outside sources in the way others don't, in large part because they see it benefits them.

Because Israel is involved and a lot of people hate Jews… and this gives them an excuse to display their anti semitism in public while being “on the right side of history” 😐