The Med Diet. Is it the reduction of meat that improves heart health?

[ThatOneStupidPheasant]

I love the Med Diet sub at Reddit and use it for recipe ideas a lot. I do notice a good amount of people have great health outcomes after suffering heart attacks, or high cholesterol, after moving over to healthier eating choices.

I also notice that fish is eaten a coule of times per week, then chicken maybe less often, and red meat on occasion only. So this is a good drop in meat consumption and I wonder if that contributes to heart health or whether overall lifestyle changes are more likely to have caused it.
I imagine many people also gave up smoking, started to move more and drink less booze, too. So it may be hard to tell if the Med Diet is carrying the load, so to speak.

Anyone well up on this stuff?
I eat meat around 4 or 5 days per week, and am not interested in becoming veggie, but would definitely like to reduce - better heart health would be a bonus!

I am no nutritionist but looking back on my grandparents daily menu, it was quite meat orientated. Meat, veg and potatoes. Both grandmothers lived to the age of 90 and grandfathers, 84 & 85. They probably didn’t use as much in the way of convenience foods as we probably did in the 80s/90s.

Red meat is great for iron consumption. All animal derived products are good in moderation.

We eat lots of turkey (burgers, bolognese, meatballs) but also steaks, beef mince and chicken. Pork and lamb aren’t favoured here, nor is fish bar prawns or tinned tuna.

I do think it’s all just a balance between meat, dairy, veg and carbs.

I suppose it’s just what works for your family :)

https://pin.it/4MIwSllNf

Yes I did wonder about iron, especially for menstruating women/girls.
It would possibly be difficult to isolate which changes are the most beneficial when moving to the Med Diet, especially if other lifestyle alterations are made too.
Most people in the Med community do seem to think it's the food alone, and perhaps many of them have only changed what they eat with no other stuff.
A good amount of lowered cholesterol, etc.

I think increase in good fats -olive oil, oily fish etc and reduction in bad fats -cakes, biscuits etc plus the abundance of vegetables all work together in making it a healthy diet.

Tragic thing about fish is that most are farmed now and as a consequence a good drop in omega 3.
Some, such as sea bass, may even contain more omega 6 than 3, so I heard. I think salmon has suffered a heck of a drop in omega 3 too.

I would say that it’s partly lots more veg and fruit, and far more fibre. The ratio of meat in a meal has vastly increased in recent years.

Also, we have to remember that other strands are probably sleep, social life, exercise, not drinking too much. Things like that.

Can you link to that Reddit sub please?

Here it is https://www.reddit.com/r/mediterraneandiet/

Best to toggle the filters for 'top' posts for some really good recipe ideas.

It's probably the olive oil?

I think its lack of UPFs. They have pride in making food from scratch every day and if you go into a supermarket in Italy, for example, there is very little processed ready-meal type food.

I think the olive oil is definitely part of it. I understand it's a healthier fat than many others. And there seems to be more and more evidence that ultra-processed food is not great for you. I assume a Med diet avoids that.

I imagine you could have a diet without UPF that wasn't 'heart healthy' though. I am intrigued by the lack of red meat. Probably not great for keto people who avoid whole grains!

I dare say you could easily adapt it to suit your preferences, I myself would prefer it to contain copious amounts of Gruyere

I actually heard that cheese might not be a 'bad' saturated fat recently. I don't think they have come to a conclusion yet, but if they do decide it's good, my heart will leap with joy, lol.

I replicated this one today. He claims to have used baked tomato, courgette and red pepper, added EVOO, salt and pepper only, then blended with a hand mixer later. He then added a can of lentils to make the soup.

I followed this almost to the letter, since I had some leftover tomatoes and the rest in the fridge. Am used to making soup with water and stock, so this was interesting!

It was actually delicious, I added a bit of cream cheese and some oregano/basil. I think some garlic and celery next time to replace the stock, but so easy and healthy.

Spain has very high meat consumption as does France. Both are higher than Germany's and higher than the UK, for example. And Italy's is comparable with ours. Greece's is a bit lower, but not low on a global scale. There might be something in a Mediterranean diet (the actual ones, not defined by reddit or online health magazines) being more healthy, but it doesn't seem to be about meat. As others have said, it's probably a combination of the oils, grains and legumes which are high in fibre, high consumption of fruit and veg, and minimal UPF. Then again on that last point, Australia, fairly famous for meat eating and with high consumption of UPFs, has a lower heart disease rate than Italy.

Also fair to note that sometimes high cholesterol can be family genetics and nothing to do with diet.

This is almost certainly the most important aspect. We know UPFs are very damaging to health, there was a report out recently about increase in bowel cancer in younger people, it is thought there is a strong link to UPFs.

I think with fish you want to focus the smash ones - salmon, mackerel, anchovies, sardines and herring. All smaller fish so bottom of the food chain with lower heavy metals and toxins and all high in omega 3.

With salmon you do have to pay a lot more for the wild caught but all the other fish tend to be wild caught by default and relatively cheap.

I agree with @Timeforabitofpeacein that the higher ratio of vegetables in Mediterranean diet meals must be a major contributor to its health benefits. As well as fibre, they have a wealth of nutrients.
I use the healthy plate model of 1/2-2/3 plate of vegetables when I cook. I notice when eating out in UK that you rarely get this amount of vegetables on your plate. Even vegetarian meals here seem to be mostly carbs & cheese heavy.

Agree about the higher veg and grain consumption being most likely to boost health.
I don't see a huge difference, bar omega 3, where fish would be intrinsically healthier than lean chicken, but in this case I suppose the people report better health outcomes due to an overhaul that encompasses various aspects of lifestyle, as opposed to just cutting down on mammal/bird meat.

I think that the medically prescribed Med Diet doesn't quite conform to that of the people living around the actual Mediterranean itself. There's quite a bit of sausage and lamb in their diets, generally! Most do eat some form of bread or rice and not particularly wholemeal either. Same with France and Spain.

Perhaps a better balance of nutrients, and less of the typical 'western pattern diet' will help anyone.

I think fish has a lots more healthy micronutrients than chicken plus they are also meant to be more bioavailable e.g. zinc, magnesium, iodine, selenium and vit d.

@Planesmistakenforstars I suspect the better cardivahealth outcomes in Australia compared to Italy are a combination of lower smoking rates and better preventative health care (higher use of statins etc).

I always like the anomaly of The Sardinians who eat vast amounts of meat, especially lamb, lots of cheese along with honey, olive oil, bread, and several glasses of heavy red wine a day, and are the longest lived in the world.

Everything is fresh basic food. They walk a lot, lots of hills, and have very good family and social connections.

This is what I thought. I don't like red meat myself, but have noticed the popularised Med Diet is a health movement, not an exact replica. I think it aims to mix the best components of the Med countries, whilst omitting those that it doesn't agree with. And if this is good for heart health, so be it.
I think it depends how literally one takes it.
I do enjoy homemade white bread and sourdough, and certainly won't be giving it up until there is evidence that it is harming me. I do mix in a decent amount of whole grains though, through the week.

As for meat, I do think we eat much, ,much less until quite recently, so there could be some issues with that. We don't have much of a historical precedent to judge how much might harm or benefit us.

I also think it is important to consider calcium for post meno women, many of whom developed osteoporosis after reducing dairy. Choose your alternatives with that in mind!

Ah, and I do walk a lot (don't drive currently) and walk hills quite frequently, but I have an abysmal family/social life, lol.