Can English people explain how they feel about this?

[Green215]

As an English person, do you hold resentment towards any country based on historical grievances like war, invasion, famine, colonialism etc? If so, which; if not, why?

The reason I ask is because I’ve always found it odd how the English tend to be the only people in the world who do not hold such grievances.

Irish people are always complaining about British colonialism; many Scots and Welsh likewise complain about England on a historical basis; Greeks and Turks complain about one another; Africans, Indians, Arabs etc complain about European colonialism and American invasions; China complains about Japanese atrocities and vice versa; Russia complains about German atrocities; post-Soviet states complain about Russian occupation; France and Germany complain about one another; America often complains about the Revolution; Canada complains about the War of 1812; Mexico and Latin American countries and Caribbean countries complain about American invasions or interference or colonialism; some Australians resent British rule etc.

But, rarely do English people demand reparations or sing “rebel songs” or complain about historical grievances. Why?

I could understand if maybe some English people resented Germany due to the two world balls or resented America for things like the Suez crisis and the funding of the IRA. And truth be told, I have come across some English people that are like that. But, they are very few compared to the other peoples I described.

I understand that this is sort of an academic question, but I wanted to come on this forum to ask ordinary English people how they felt and I hope you can give some honest answers rather than sarcastic responses or not answering the question properly.

What do people actually mean by “hate the English” ?
Hate every single person who is born here? Hate every single person who lives here? all the babies and children? The people who have moved to create lives here?

It’s absolutely ridiculous.

My Irish ancestors joined the army and colonial militias and were involved in dispossessing Māori of their land with associated atrocities. That was pretty common. You could probably make a case for diminished responsibility on the basis that they had fewer economic options than enlisting / emigration, but nevertheless they did what they did.

Regarding the Congo specifically, Leopold II didn't mind who served him as long as they did his bidding. That involved people across Europe and I doubt any country of any size provided no one.

By that argument, can you explain why people say “I hate the English” not “I hate upper class white Englishmen” then? Because that certainly isn’t what they say.

Or is it just a slightly disingenuous way of disassociating Scotland and Wales from the empire?

No, why are you asking.

I already know it is which is why most of us want independence!!

Sorry. Where do you live? Is there likely to be a referendum?
I do think Wales and Northern Ireland should have the opportunity to vote and leave the UK if they so wish.

...and Scotland (because the situation has changed since the last one - EU membership, for example).

I disagree. Scotland has had a referendum.
I think they should be given the opportunity in a number of years but it can’t be something that is done repeatedly every time there is a big change in government.

I don't care if you disagree.
Also, it's nothing to do with a change in government - Scotland overwhelmingly did not vote for Bretshit.

I meant broadly “changes in government”

so votes of any capacity.

It doesn’t matter if you don’t care or that I disagree.

We’re allowed opinions.

The terms have changed significantly.

N Ireland. I do love visiting England (London is my favourite), but we are all fed up with it. Even Brexit - of course our vote wasn't going to count because we have such a small population. There is talk of a referendum yes, but I don't think it will be any time soon.

There’s places I like visiting but I wouldn’t want to be governed by them or share a currency etc. so I sympathise with you.

I do hope you get one.

@YourBrickTiger

out of interest, is the appetite for a referendum in NI to become a completely independent country or to join with Ireland?

Bit of both. The loyalists in NI will never accept NOT being part of the UK but most of them are crazy. Then there are the unionists who aren't necessarily crazy but want to stay as part of the UK. Then there are the republicans who are die hard and want a United Ireland and then there are the slightly calmer nationalists who identify as Irish and would prefer a United Ireland but aren't going to wreck the place because of it. It is so so complicated here. I would like a United Ireland as my whole life I've never felt like I have my own identity, but a United Ireland would likely lead to the Troubles starting again. We can't win.

I would imagine that, sadly, for now, a referendum would destabilise the NI, from what you’re saying. I guess people can’t be expected to vote to leave if they don’t know what they will be leaving for.

I hope in our lifetime we see more unity and peace and that you get to a place where a referendum would be a positive opportunity.

No, why are you asking

I just wondered.

Yes me too. We are 'stable' at the moment and no one wants to go back to what we had. It would be horrendous but at the same time we are tired of being the relative no one wants.

It is disengenous because it is after the unification of both the Scottish and English crowns in 1707 that the Empire as a British venture developed.

Lots of Scots made themselves wealthy from trading and enterprise in the Empire. You can still see the wealth today in Edinburgh and in the number of sub baronial castles built in Scotland. You can point to the Scottish merchants who were teetotal but made their money from trading opium and the wars that were fought to keep the markets open in China.

Britain is a joint enterprise; don’t pretend otherwise

The British Empire was a joint enterprise. All the home countries played a part to a greater or lesser degree, including Ireland.

Yes, an interesting observation. Thank you.
And meanwhile, I will sing about it!

This. I really wish there was a way for MN to track these types of threads where the OP never engages after their first post. It also amazes me that so many people continue to offer their response to the question without even checking the OP engagement (when threads get this long).

I don’t see the problem. The OP instigates a discussion and people discuss. The fact that the threads get so long shows that their continued involvement beyond posing the initial question is not essential.

There have been many requests from posters that MN put some sort of lock on a post if OP hasn’t returned in, say, 48 hours, but it’s never been implemented.

Neither did I but it doesn't make me exempt from the fallout of an advisory referendum does it