Latin or German GCSE.

[Bethan9]

My DS has the option to take either Latin or German GCSE in addition to his others, and he is struggling to decide which. Can anyone offer any advice? Is Latin still useful these days or would he be better off with German?

I teach MFL and did Latin A Level. I'd say go with German. Latin is interesting, but of less potential use unless you want to pursue it beyond GCSE. German and Spanish are a great combo imo. Yes, Latin teaches you grammatical rigour and the derivation of words, but so do Spanish and German really (both the Latin and Germanic roots). Doing Latin sets you apart from the crowd, but tbh these days so do German and being a dual linguist.

I would suggest chatting with school and asking about contingency plans if the Latin teacher leaves. It has been a big issue locally as difficult to replace Latin teachers it seems. I loved Latin (and Ancient Greek) and am sad neither of my children has any interest.

That makes sense. I certainly don't think he's the brightest of the bright but he does enjoy languages and seems to do pretty well at them, he's just struggling to decide between the 2 as he's equally interested in both. I don't mind if he doesn't get a top grade, this will be an extra subject anyway, I'd rather he did something he will enjoy and find useful in the future.

Re: useful for the future, Latin is useful for law and medicine! (and obviously things like archaeology / ancient history / classics…)

That’s not true.
Grade boundaries can change, but if, (simple example) you translate 100 words correctly, you’ll score 100%.
Privately educated kids can’t be “more right” than state educated kids.
They might be more likely to score 100% because they benefit from smaller class sizes etc, but they don’t get bigger marks for answering the same questions in the same way.

(I have dyslexic dc, and I think they also found latin really helpful in terms of improving their English vocabulary, due to understanding roots of words)

Go for German. Its complex grammar is amazing for brain development, puzzle solving and the ability to think logically and differently. You also get to speak it and learn about the most powerful country in Europe. I did French, German and Latin and I found it hard to relate to the latter as a dead language.

Latin because of his English Lit ambitions and because it's such an excellent general foundation. German is easier to access and learn in later life if he wishes.

This is good advice, I think. Although I do know a retired RG uni lecturer in Eng Lit who doesn't have Latin, so it's not essential.

Is there any chance he could do both GCSEs? One now and one in sixth form. Or does he have the capacity to learn German on his own, there are so many resources these days.

I wasn't making any comments about private schools, I didn't even mention them.

I just thought that grade boundaries moved to reflect the cohort so broadly the same number of people got the same grades each year. Latin is quite niche though so possibly doesn't follow that trend, maybe everyone can get 9s.

If he could do Latin as an enrichment GCSE at sixth form, that would be great. Then he could do German with his peers and get the speaking practice in.

Thanks I'm not sure if that will be possible or not. He hasn't decided yet whether to stay at his current school for sixth form or go to a sixth form college.

Thanks that's good idea.

I don’t think it works like this. For instance, for further maths a level, there are far more A and Astar grades than normal maths a level. It’s because only the best mathematicians take further maths, and they tend to drop it if they are struggling. But the grade distributions aren’t adjusted to make sure a more typical number get A and Astar. There’s a tail of people getting the lower grades, as there is in Latin, but if lots of good students are taking it, lots will get good grades. Basically, there definitely doesn’t need to be a similar distribution of grade achievement across all subjects - some can be heavily skewed.

Plus, it’s only going to run at a school if there’s a proper Latin teacher to run it, no reason it wouldn’t be as well taught as anywhere else.

Actually after typing all that I’ve gone in search of some stats. https://analytics.ofqual.gov.uk/apps/GCSE/CentreType/
Cant filter by Latin but you can choose “classical subjects”. Percentage getting 7 or above is higher at selective/ independent schools, but it’s actually more of a gap for German than for “classical subjects”.

Isn’t it predominantly independent or selective schools that do it? I’ve not come across a non-selective school that offers Latin..

My three all went to the local secondary, rural Dorset. And did a weekly lunchtime class in Latin, all 3 of them getting GCSE in year 11, ( it did take 4 years, but we felt so lucky to have had that oppotunity).

OP, all 3 are very pleased to have done it and constantly find it helpful in unexpected situations. I realise that this was not a typical GCSE curriculum route though. But, maybe BECAUSE it was so relaxed, they stuck to it and enjoyed it.

DS chose Latin because there's no speaking exam, he didn't enjoy languages at all but got an 8 (at state school). He hadn't wanted to do Latin when he was forced into it due to being in top set but then found he actually enjoyed it, there was more to it than just learning the language which made it more interesting.

Yes I’m sure it is, but not exclusively. Our kids comprehensive totally normal state high school offers Latin through from y7. I was v pleased to see it - my grammar back in the 80s/90s didn’t do it any more when I was there.

I got a C grade 'O' Level in Latin, 50 years ago. I still find it useful today, one reason being that it taught more grammar than either my French or English classes did - and that was useful when it came to dabbling in other languages (I can handle the holiday basics in German, French, Greek, and Italian, plus a smattering of Russian).

To answer your actual question OP (sorry!) I’d suggest Latin, it’s such a good base for understanding languages. A modern foreign language and Latin sounds like a good balance (also do they get to visit eg Pompeii / Herculaneum? They do a trip for gcse students at my DS’s school).

I loved Latin. I did it to o'level in 1979. My Latin teacher from school is still alive ...must be late 80s and one of my old school friends still sees her and she still asks after us all.
I loved all the different declensions and conjugations and sentence structure.

I would choose Latin. I did both Latin and German at O Level, with Latin compulsory from the second year of secondary school and German optional from the fourth year.

Latin was very useful for coping with the rigours of German grammar, and until now (almost fifty years later) I am grateful that I had the opportunity to learn it as it has helped, and continues to help, my comprehension of so many unfamiliar words and scientific terms. I actually continued with Latin lessons in the lower sixth, which was an option for those of us who didn’t want to do it at A Level but were interested in studying it more.

German is much easier to learn independently of a school setting, whereas Latin requires more discipline.