I liked the way he said it

[PrizedPickledPopcorn]

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

I don’t know a lot about Charlie Kirk, and only heard of him from the various snippets of him pinning people down to clarify their beliefs.

I’m bewildered at the rage and vitriol surrounding him.

I disagreed with most of his positions, but could understand some of his motivation. He did not seem to me to be wishing ill on sections of the population, so much as seeking an ordered, structured society where people behaved virtuously according to his world view.

I don’t believe his world view works for the whole of society. People who are ‘not like him’ or who don’t agree with him would be miserable. So I think he was wrong. He doesn’t get to set the rules. However the answer to that is to debate it with him, to discuss why he’s wrong and create a world that works better for everyone, not just him and his cookie cutter friends.

I didn’t agree with what he said, but liked the way he said it. My reservation being that we saw only the videos he released. Presumably there were debates where people held their own and he got ass whipped- and we don’t see those. That’s manipulation.

I wish he were still alive to be argued with. To be training youngsters up in logical thinking, instead of the identikit packaged beliefs so many seem to hold.

Yes, I agree with you. It’s a dangerous position to take to decide “well, I think the way you think is abhorrent, so I think that your life is worthless”. Surely if that’s true of him, you can’t complain if somebody thinks the same of you.
Once somebody has died there is no hope for change or growth. If I don’t agree with the death penalty, I can not be comfortable with the death of a political opponent.
A relative of mine posted a trite meme thing of the “well I don’t think he should die, but look at the hard time this lady got (indirectly) because of him!” I had to work really hard at not replying “Maybe so, but I can’t help but notice that he’s dead and she’s not!”

I'm not weeping about his murder. No one deserves a violent death, but as he was vociferously opposed to gun control, there's an irony to him being shot dead, which will of course be lost on those who share his views. Who, as with his anti-abortion and anti-gay views, his far right Christian nationalism, pro-MAGA, pro-Trump, his espousal of tendentious conspiracy theories etc, are not in short supply, and now have a martyr.

I would quite like to have been comfortable in the 1950s cookie cutter world he advocated. An adoring husband, 2.2 dc.

Obviously it isn’t real- we are all variety of different kinds of people, with non standard issue programming and non conformist tastes 🤣. I’d probably have hated it! But I can see the appeal of it- the security and comfort of living within those boundaries.

And I feel trepidation about the future, a world where both extremes feel emboldened by this crime. Instead of being brought together by crimes like school shootings and political assassination, people use it as fuel to inflame and entrench even more.
The world is less safe.

Hi OP, I don't wish to comment on the thread particularly however your thread begins with: " I like the way he said it", followed by the quote:
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
I may have taken it the wrong way and if so I apologise, but the beginning of your post seemed to me to infer that you were crediting Charlie Kirk with this quote.
The quote actually belongs to Evelyn Beatrice Hall.
She wrote this line in her book, The Friends of Voltaire, to summarise Voltaire's views on free speech, but the famous phrasing was her own, leading to common misattribution.

You should report the thread and ask to put Charlie Kirk in the title so people know it’s another Charlie Kirk thread before clicking on it

I agreed with everything he said and he was a shining light in a dark world.

Thanks for clarifying! I did think op is quoting him, even though I had a suspicion he was not a person who would defend to death my right to speak up for pro choice, for example.

And you don't think for one minute that he said things like that so that HE could spout all sorts of hatred under the pretence of 'debate'?

Nobody should be murdered for their views, however contentious they may be.

I have no knowledge of the man, nor of his opinions, but he didn't deserve that.

People fell in love with the way Adolf Hitler spoke as well, he was very popular for a few years.

@CaroleLandis
Really?
Do you agree with him saying that if his 10 old daughter got raped and got pregant, he would make have the baby?
Do you agree that having deadly shootings is the price worth paying, if it means Americans get to keep the Second Amendment?
Do you agree that there are no hungry children in USA and empathy is nonsense?

This.

Apologies, @NedraRaeNevar . It’s so well known, it never occurred to me people would think he said it.

I don’t agree with most of what he said. I am appalled that people are inferring that his opinions make his killing less bad.

I liked his speaking style. When I agreed with him and when I disagreed with him.

He didn’t say it. It’s a well known quote.

I believe it. I believe we should be able to have conversations about things we hold opposing views on. When people say things I disagree with, I get to choose whether to argue with them. And vice versa.

Fascists who sound reasonable, smile while they’re doing it, ‘welcome debate’ and exude charm are MUCH more dangerous than spitting psychos. So no, I don’t like how he said it. He said he’d make his 10 yo daughter carry the baby of a rapist if it happened. Saying you’re a wannabe child abuser with a smile and a ‘debate’ doesn’t make it better, it makes it worse.

Do I think he should have been shot? Of course not. But do I think he’s better in some way? No. Worse if anything.

It’s attributed to Voltaire.

@NedraRaeNevar tells us it’s a summary of Voltaire’s position, by Evelyn Beatrice Hall.
It’s good to know- I was so familiar with it I’d never questioned where it came from

"I would quite like to have been comfortable in the 1950s cookie cutter world he advocated. An adoring husband, 2.2 dc."

In 1950s USA a woman couldn't get a mortgage unless a man co-signed the paperwork and had little control over their finances. Marital rape was not illegal, women didn't get equal pay or rights at work. Domestic violence was not taken seriously and the woman often blamed. Divorce was difficult and carried considerable stigma. Your choice would basically be early marriage (average age 19 in the 1950s with the vast majority of women pregnant within a year.
If you were a black woman you would be in an even worse position.

You might not have been a comfortable as you think.

Why would Charlie Kirk want to reduce the freedoms women have?

I don’t disagree with you. It’s a false picture. I can see its appeal in a turbulent world but it doesn’t offer answers to the majority of people.

I was thinking this morning of Russel Brand and the Tate brothers. Men who are persuasive speakers, it would seem, yet have done appalling things. Actually carried out oppression and brutality. I will reserve the accusations of evil and comparisons with Hitler for people like them.

The answer to Charlie Kirk would be novels like Handmaid’s Tale, not bullets. I’m appalled by assassination, but assassins will assassin. There will be always be hate and crime.
I’m sickened at the intensity felt towards a man who talked.

I’m hanging on to the hope that it’s just the polemical internet speaking, that people aren’t actually as horrible as they currently appear. Otherwise I’ll be needing to leave MN behind.

"I’m sickened at the intensity felt towards a man who talked."

I'm not surprised at the intensity. After all, people realise that the pen (or word) is mightier than the sword. Communication, ideas, and the written word are influential and effective in achieving lasting social or political change.

If those words are asking for the removal of hard won equality or rights then people will react. We see the power of words as much as we do the power of physical force.