Being an appointee for DC - social security question

[durac]

I have forms for DC but none of the options seem to fit. Has anyone had any experience of their child turning 16 and having to fill this form?

The three options are

1. the young persons is capable of making decisions and will be managing their own benefits when they turn 16
2. the young person is capable of making decisions but will require support in managing their benefit (supper refers to a 3rd party representative but the DC must tell social security they are happy with this)
3. the young person is not capable of making decisions due to their physical or mental disability and will require an appointee to manage the benefit for them

Im stuck here as none of them really fit. DS can make decisions but maybe not the best ones, I understand that’s ok because I am here to support this not control it. However, DS isn’t able to communicate with anyone outside of the immediate family. It seems option 2 would work as I could still make the phone calls etc but there is no way DS will be able to agree to this over the phone. Options 3 seems a bit much and they come to the house which would absolutely stress DS out and he would not be able to join that meeting.

I am also mindful that if I go for option 1 due to it being ‘easier’ for now it will become a massive problem when it comes to claiming adult disability.

Anyone been through it?

I have recently gone through this with my teen, we’re firmly option 3 though so no debate there. In order to confirm this a member of staff from social security was sent out to meet us and then talk to my teen alone. They hadn’t mentioned that they would like to speak to him alone which threw me at the time but luckily he was ok with it. It was very relaxed and informal. I think the forms say something like making bad decisions doesn’t mean you lack capacity so maybe option 2 would be your best bet.

Sorry I misread that you know they come out. Can he have a pre prepared sentence to say in the call to confirm? If not they might have to visit anyway but I do think social security are not out to cut benefits the way pip sounds like it is

Option 3 for me. My DD could never manage this (assume PIP). I see this as an interim measure (hopefully). The admin around it would be too big for DD (she could not deal with phone calls, visits etc, anyone talking to her).

Foster son with learning disabilities claims UC and I had to take him to job centre for initial interview. He won't speak to strangers. The man asked him a question and he turned to me and replied. The man tried hard to engag him but he would only speak to me so the man asked a question and I repeated the question exactly and FS replied to me almost with his back to interviewer but it sort of worked.

Thanks it’s nothing to do with UC, thankfully. There is no way DS would go!

See the managing the claim is the issue but legally I don’t think I can choose 3 as DS does understand the situation, he just isn’t able to deal with the claim.

He won’t talk to anyone. He won’t even talk to me in the phone if I’m out but he hasn’t spoken to anyone outwith the immediate family for at least 3 years.

Could your DC write it down if they can't speak to a stranger?

I would on benefits. I would say 3. SSS will send someone out to assess and guide if they think 2 is better. The fact that he can’t engage with them will mean 3 is a better option for you to be able to support them.
Have you also applied for POA for him and spoken to your GP practice to get the papers for DS to sign to enable them to speak to you if needed or they won’t be able to liaise with you.

Hasn’t even realised I would need to do this. The GP has been less than helpful but you would expect they mention once DC is 16 I can’t talk to them. I shall get in touch asap. Not sure if POA would be needed but I shall look into it, thank you

Oh they won’t be able to speak to DS there is no way he would leave his room and come down with a stranger in the house

Option 2 is what we used, my dd had to be put on the phone to authorise me acting on her behalf. Option 3 is for those who do not have capacity to do so, if you opt for 3 once they turn 18 you will need to go to the court of protection to be able to act on their behalf on a long term basis, dsd has this in place

They will need you to take them for assessment, or they will come to you in some circumstances, I’m not sure there’s a way around this

I think that’s only for England and Wales.

It Is also about assessing mental capacity. I cannot say DS hasn’t got capacity, its ability he hasn’t got.

There is nothing to assess, this is about who manages his social security benefit.

I’ve been appointee for my DS for 14 yrs now. The visit was a ten minute thing - and if your DS won’t come out of his room or speak then it just strengthens your case that he needs you to advocate for him. As much as you’re relieved at the moment that it doesn’t involve UC, at some point it might so best to be prepared. My ds has just migrated from ESA to UC and the process was very straightforward, they didn’t need to speak to him (ds will give his information but can’t answer detailed questions), and I’ll remain as his appointee. So I’d recommend asking your ds if he agrees with option 3.
usually in dealings with the Dr, I answer the phone, hand it to him and he tells them to speak to me!

If he can’t speak to anyone outside the family you need to get POA to help him manage his finances, any support package etc. post 16 in Scotland his bank won’t be able to speak to you re his account. What would happen if his card got cloned for example?
You have to have capacity to grant POA and authorise someone to act on your behalf which sounds appropriate in this case. Your local carers centre may have a local contact for this.

SSS are used to coming out and the young person not coming out or speaking to them. It is part of the assessment re appointee options.

We are going through this at the moment. Ds2 can't talk to strangers so i applied to be his appointee. They are saying we have to have a home visit so that DS2 can confirm he wants me to be his appointee. The whole point of me being his appointee is so that he doesn't have to talk to them.

This is amazing information thank you. I was getting the POA mixed up completely.!

Yes this is exactly my thoughts!

Part of the reason SSS need to come out is to assess how suitable you are to be appointee and to meet you both in person if possible. It is designed to be more person centred than to demand you both come to the job centre for example.
Historically there have been awful cases of people claiming fraudulently for relatives or people taking relatives benefit payments. It’s not a perfect system but it tries to balance safeguarding with meeting the needs of the disabled person. Anyone could say my young person won’t talk to you on the phone but if they come out they can verify that.

I understand the reasoning, I don’t think option 3 is quite appropriate for DS anyway. But it’s mad that there is no alternative for those who are unable to communicate with others. His medical records back this up so it wouldn’t be just taking my word for it. I can have them at the house but it will cause DS a lot of distress, we haven’t had anyone in our house for a very long time, longer ago than he would remember anyway, and he really wouldn’t come and speak to them. I think option 2 is the closest but I’m going to co that them and ask their advice as DS wouldn’t verbally agree.

edited to add I just realised do you mean we could do option 2 with them coming out to verify he can’t talk to them maybe? It’s all so difficult to manage and I really have no idea about these things.

I choose option 3 because when I tried to engage DS in conversation about it he found it too stressful to think about. I filled out the form and then received a letter stating that I had been made his appointee. No one ever visited or asked to speak to him or see him. I get all his PIP money paid into my account because he won’t engage in the process of opening a bank account - he doesn’t want one and has zero interest in money. And I can’t open an account for him on his behalf without his input.

I’m now in the process of getting universal credit for him, he’s only 17 but not in education. I told the UC people I was his appointee and again they’ve never spoken to him or seen him. They’ve told me they don’t need to see or speak with him as I’m his appointee. I have been quite surprised by the lack of checks.

The only time someone has insisted on speaking to DS was the GP receptionist shortly after he turned 16. He didn’t actually answer her questions but she heard him say to me ‘what’s going on about?’ And that was sufficient for her to put a note on the system. They always just speak to me now.

I am trying to get DS more involved in decision making and I’m trying to get him interested in the concept of money as I’m hoping he will develop independent living skills. So I keep him updated on his UC claim and periodically ask him if he’d like to manage his own money.

I think this is only for if you need a deputyship for full control over their finances/bills/bank accounts. If you are just managing their benefits I think you just remain their appointee.

You mention PIP so i am guessing you are dealing with the DWP, not SSS, so probably why its different