This article has completely changed my view on surrogacy

[IGaveSoManySigns]

Archive.ph link due to the original being behind a paywall

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2025.09.04-181120/www.wired.com/story/the-baby-died-whose-fault-is-it-surrogate-pregnancy/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2025.09.04-181120/www.wired.com/story/the-baby-died-whose-fault-is-it-surrogate-pregnancy/

I cannot believe how crazy the “intended” mother sounds. I used to believe there wasn’t an issue with surrogacy but now I feel it should be banned. Wow!

When, and how much did it address adoption / separation in human mother/baby? Because frankly at this moment from what you've written it seems that there is a large amount of information in this (admittedly somewhat minority area) that wasn't addressed in your course.

Nancy Verrier wrote the book 'The Primal Wound' about the effects of removing babies at birth and handing them to complete strangers for everyone to then pretend that nothing much happened there.

I saw her speak in London about 20 years ago. The room was full of adult adoptes who fully related to what she says.

Imo children should only be removed from birth mother in exceptional circumstances, not created specifically with removal as part of the plan.

Bi makes the Wives in the Handmaid's Tale look like kind compassionate people. I feel very sorry for any kids living in a household with a mother that behaves like that.

I'm not convinced that you can get someone else to carry a baby for you without dehumanising them. Even if you're an otherwise good person there's just something about having to relinquish control over the pregnancy until you can get your hands on the product. It's never going to bring out the best in a person.

I’ve noticed more and more pro-surrogacy articles popping up in places like the Guardian. I think there is a big push behind the scenes, being heavily funded by lobbyists. This is a multibillion dollar industry and the UK would be rich pickings.
They just need to convince people in power that women and babies are commodities that can be bought and sold.
Good to see coverage of the other side.

I think it's the demographic of journalists at these media outlets. They seem to have a never ending supply of friends and fellow journalists doing it. So they support them with articles all about them and their journeys, rather than looking at the issues. The BBC's Italian correspondent has a surrogate child and wrote quite unprofessional imo pieces about Italy's ban on surrogacy.

It really does, the implication at the beginning of the article is that American Tech companies see the solution to women fitting having babies around working for them is to support them in renting out the wombs of women who don't work for them. Peak capitalism and surely dystopian.

I always find these threads really interesting. The same posters who are anti surrogacy are pro abortion. So surrogacy = baby always more important than woman’s want for child and abortion = woman’s want for abortion is always more important than baby’s life. I just find it a bit of a mindfield that it’s presented so black and white.

Why is desperation for a child less important than desperation to remove a child?

Obviously the article is horrific.

Why is desperation for a child less important than desperation to remove a child?

Because surrogacy involves another woman’s body and abortion is about one’s own body.

That article is horrific

And at the end of the article, it implies both surrogates health problems with the placenta (causing the second to need an emergency hysterectomy as well), were down to genetic problems with the biological parents.

Very succinctly and accurately put.

No one is entitled to a child. You can be as desperate as you can possibly be but you are still not owed a child. In the UK, adoption is all about the needs of the child, not about providing the adult with a child.

Surrogacy is all about the wishes of the adult. The child's needs are not centered. If they were, the child would have contact with egg and/or surrogate for starters.

Babies simply shouldn't be treated like a commodity and moved around at the behest of adults.

Didn’t need to be persuaded by an article. Surrogacy is obviously wrong in any circumstance. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. An abhorrent practice. Should be a worldwide outright ban.

I’m not sure why you think it’s odd that being pro choice doesn’t mean you can’t also think babies should be prioritised as individuals after they are born.

I’ve always thought it utterly immoral and dehumanising. Of course it’s easy for two gay men to use the homophobia card when criticised. It sickens me to be honest. And angers me to have the exploitation of women’s bodies normalised by celebrities and rich people purchasing human life.

i was always against surrogacy but I now know someone going through it ( health reasons- being pregnant could kill her) - they’re doing paid surrogacy but largely because the legal protections for both sides are much better- and legal status is clearer.. surrogates reasons seem primarily altruistic ( family history means she is very supportive of fertility issues) .
there does seem to have been limited thought given to the surrogates mental health - let alone physical-
i had fertility issues and understand the desire to have your “own” baby but I’m still on the fence about this even in the best of circumstances-

I've seen a couple of interviews with those guys and was actually considering creating a post about it. I was really shocked.

They've said in multiple interviews that the reason they went to the US is because the UK laws are "wrong" in that a mother can change her mind after the birth. So they've travelled to the US where the woman they will be buying a baby from has less rights. They are openly admitting this on TV, but they think the backlash they are getting is due to homophobia!

AI summary of the article:

Here’s a summary of the Wired (Sept 3, 2025) article “The Baby Died. Whose Fault Is It?” by Emi Nietfeld:

---

Summary

Background:
Venture capitalist Cindy Bi and her husband used surrogacy in 2023 to have a child. Their surrogate, “Rebecca Smith” (pseudonym), carried their only male embryo, baby Leon.

Pregnancy & complications:

Smith experienced bleeding and her water broke early. She was hospitalized at 29 weeks.

Bi became increasingly distrustful, questioning Smith’s health, lifestyle, and motives.

At 29 weeks, Leon was stillborn after a placental abruption. Smith nearly died during surgery.

Aftermath:

Bi blamed Smith for Leon’s death, alleging unsafe sex, negligence, and even intentional harm.

She launched lawsuits, doxed Smith online, reported her to employers, regulators, and even the FBI, and shared Leon’s photo with Smith’s young son.

Smith, facing trauma, unpaid bills, and online harassment, obtained a restraining order.

Surrogacy industry context:

US surrogacy is a $5 billion industry with little regulation and high medical risks for surrogates.

Confidentiality clauses and arbitration keep disputes hidden, while intended parents often have far more power and resources than surrogates.

Surrogacy carries higher risks (tripled chance of severe complications compared to natural pregnancies), yet many surrogates are not fully informed.

Legal & financial battles:

Bi has spent or owes nearly $1 million in legal fees, repeatedly appealing cases and pursuing malpractice suits.

Smith is left with hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical debt after Bi stopped payments.

Bi continues to campaign for surrogates to face criminal liability for pregnancy outcomes, citing “fetal personhood” laws as a model.

Personal fallout:

Bi sees herself as a whistleblower fighting for unborn children, but her actions devastated Smith, who has faced suicidal thoughts and job instability.

Despite Leon’s death, Bi later had a daughter via another surrogate—who herself suffered life-threatening complications.

Bi is still pursuing both new surrogacy and lawsuits.

I did an entire module on child development - which included a lot of work on early attachments.

Or a baby!

The only case of surrogacy I know in ‘real life’ involved a couple who used a surrogate because the wife had some health issues that either meant she couldn’t or shouldn’t get pregnant. So they used a surrogate. Surrogate used her own eggs so is the biological mother.

The ‘adopting’ mother massively struggled to bond with the baby and the father had to do most of the care. By the time the child was 2 the couple had split up and the child was passed between the two parents, grandparents and child care and seemed to have no one who she was firmly attached to. I always wondered how the biological mother would feel if she knew that was the life her baby was living.

Pregnancy massively changes women’s bodies. I had an easy pregnancy and birth with my daughter and I’m still left with some bladder incontinence. We shouldn’t be putting women’s health at risk for the desires of other people.

Turning human babies into commodities and then positioning this as an advancement for gay men’s rights is astonishing marketing. No one is owed a child however much they want one. And surrogacy should be banned worldwide with no exceptions - and we can go back to helping and supporting people through not being able to have biological children.

The only surrogacy I m aware of is where the IP mother suffered from cancer, nearly died, had a hysterectomy and went into immediate menopause in her early 30s.

By early 40s the IP couple decided to have a baby via surrogacy. The IP mother suffers a lot from anxiety. There has been further cancer in the females in the family, who have undergone treatment and are healthy again and have chosen not to have children. Given how aggressive cancer appears to be in the family, I ld be worried for the long term health of the IP mother (along with all the other concerns about surrogacy).

The baby can’t consent to surrogacy, and removal from the birth mother is an innate trauma. In my mind there’s no ethical way to do that, removal from the birth mother should be a last resort, so the commercialisation of it in the states is worrying. There it is typically rich people paying to use the bodies of people with less money too, so there’s a power imbalance. Very hand maids tale. There are better protections in the UK, but it doesn’t quite sit right with me.

I spent the first six weeks of my life in a NICU unit. My late mum could only see me once a week - how awful for her. I kept asking if I was adopted from an early age so my parents had to tell me.

During COVID I felt terrible separation anxiety regarding my mum, totally out of the blue. As soon as restrictions were eased, I went over to Northern Ireland to be with her. I was 60 at the time!

I had no idea about the life threatening and changing complications regarding surrogacy, and now I'm informed, I think it should be banned.

I slightly smell a rat with this journalist, bonkers although ‘Bi’ is portrayed. The allegations that ‘Bi’ castigated Smith for being a single parent seem extremely unlikely for an IP in the USA. If the GC is married then her husband is automatically registered on the birth certificate as the child’s father, so an unmarried GC is vastly preferable.

Also, vindictive as ‘Bi’ appears, how would she have been able to get hold of the details for Smith’s 7 year old son’s iPad? It says a lot to Smith’s boundaries if she did. And to send a photo of a baby’s dead body - seriously???