If you or an immediate family member has new or worsening conditions due to contagious illnesses, how do you/they manage the deleterious impact on overall health with the increasing drive to spread illness?

[Frankieohfrankie]

I have long covid, but obviously there are other illnesses and treatments that affect immune systems. Catching so many viruses from school meant most of last year was even more of a write off. I know there’s always been a propensity by some to normalise the volume of illness in places like schools, whilst paying little attention to the consequences. I accept illness and catching illness is part of life. What I’m struggling with is the attitude towards force feeding spread which seems to be on steroids. It’s an attitude with awful consequences to so many. I don’t understand it - presenteeism costs billions and billions. Despite presenteeism being huge in work and education, absence from illness has increased in both, people having to quit jobs due to illness has spiralled, so many types of illnesses have increased for nhs staff. Obviously the reasons for increasing illness will be multi factorial, but why such a drive to force spread when it’s a clear contributor?

I have LC too. I hear what your saying.

I think I’ve seen some of your posts before. It’s a very memorable username! Is there a story behind it?!

Do you think you might suffer from a form of health anxiety?

The world can’t stop every time someone has a cold for fear of spreading it. It’s actually good for us to be exposed to germs and develop our immune systems.

What do you mean by “force spread of illness”? Who is doing the forcing?

it really isn’t practical for everyone to quarantine for ever possible cold or cough symptom. And many are contagious before symptoms appear. So what solution would you like?

How do you reconcile that with the developing understanding that viral infections are implicated in serious long term illness? I am no expert, but I think they have found several serious conditions linked to a seemingly innocuous viral illness.

No, I don’t. What part of my post are you having difficulty understanding?

And (genuinely) what do we do about that?

What is this force spreading? I actually think we’ve become more aware and with hybrid working presenteeism is greatly reduced.

Many law firms I work with have a reasonably high focus on wellbeing etc which would have been laughable 15 years ago

I don't understand what you mean by forced spreading. People have always had contagious illnesses. Since COVID people are much more responsible with working from home when sick, wearing a mask, keeping distance and not going to crowded public places when ill. It seems like it's got better not worse.

And as others say, what is the solution?

People really need to stop perpetuating this myth that being constantly ill is good for you.

I know what you mean, OP. There is zero effort made to stop spreading viruses in this country. And if you have a different point of view, you’ll be told you have „health anxiety”.

I have long Covid too - basically I’m disabled now. Whenever someone says ‘Oh it’s just a cold’, it scares me because it is so unpredictable. I had symptoms of a cold - apart from low O2 levels (I was in hospital on O2 for a few days) I didn’t feel terribly ill - but it has decimated my life and dh is my carer now so it’s ruined his life too.

It’s not for immunocompromised though

we had the option to work from home, however often we wanted and were told not to come in if unwell
a colleague came in with tonsillitis and sat next to me despite knowing I’m immunocompromised
why would you do that?!

@ShesTheAlbatross we used to stay home when ill. You didn’t go out if you were sneezing and spluttering everywhere, much like the 48hr rule for sickness.

It doesn’t stop it spreading but massively reduces it.

Designing buildings for better air quality as was discussed during Covid would also help.

Since I have had no school age family members, I’ve been dramatically less ill. If we slowed spread in schools it would be helpful everywhere else too.

As an immunocompromised person I agree with you. The whole focus on attendance at school is wrong - children should stay home when they are sick. As for working in or just visiting a hospital with any viral illness, it can be catastrophic for someone already sick and we need to do more to prevent it happening.

I got so ill when my first was in nursery (I am immunocompromised and asthmatic) I thought it was going to derail my whole life. Just viral illness after viral illness. It was miserable for my child, too -- so many infections plus a mum often unwell.

My second went to forest school nursery (at some inconvenience and expense) and it was night and day. He had sniffles here and there as was very healthy himself but also I believe because viral load was lower so he was exposed to some illness but at a low dose. I barely got ill and could work and lead my life. He went to reception (normal indoor one) and being older by then and having had a more mature immune system, the increase in illness by then was not dramatic.

Outdoor learning, cleaner indoor air, more awareness of keeping people at home rather than spreading illness (I work at a secondary school and parents regularly want to send in a kid who "just vomited once"), good hygiene -- all of these can help us live our lives.

Our immune systems need to encounter some pathogens and dirt, etc, but the idea that illness is good for us is more pervasive than it deserves to be (probably more popular amongst those who are generally healthy!).

And it's this sort of selfish thought process that makes living a immuno suppressed life so challenging. I don't for one minute think people need to completely stop their life for a cold but could they take better precautions not to spread it? Absolutely! It's fuckwit selfish behaviour not to.

The person who is ill should wash their hands a lot more while they are ill. They should avoid indoor public areas if they can e.g. they probably can't avoid work but do they really need to go out for that meal that could be postponed a few days? They should ventilate rooms if they're ill. They should let people know they have a cold before meeting up to allow the immuno suppressed person to have a choice to avoid their viral load. They could spray down their work area with a Dettol a couple of times each day to lower the viral load spreading. They could even wear a mask to work. If their child is ill and you still send them into school you could send them in with hand gel and tissues and could encourage them to wash hands more often. The increases hand washing really helped in the covid era.

Basically you don't need to stop life but don't assume a cold is nothing to offer people. Do your bit to try to avoid spreading it. If you don't, you're a selfish dick. Who wants people to be ill?

They're a selfish dick.

I don’t think it’s realistic to make anyone with a cold not go out in public, because of the impact on immunocompromised people.

There is also significant economic impact as a result.

Actions can be taken for immunocompromised people to help them avoid illness; but that can’t be enforcing rules on other people, if they are feeling well enough to work.

If you do not feel safe in an office environment as a result of the risk of being exposed to bugs, could you look for a WFH role instead?

Did you actually read my post properly?

I did yes, I think your expectations are unrealistic as they are only based on your perception of risk - and tbh your attitude towards other people who are probably doing their best while ill is unnecessarily hostile IMO.

What masks are you suggesting people wear? Who purchases them and decides at what point they should be worn? Was it not established the paper ones weren't effective, and that the constant handwashing and use of gel actually contributed to health anxiety in children.
Absolutely hygiene is important but never to the stage where it was hand gel every 2 minutes, or the stage of 'I'm not wearing a mask, but YOU need to, to protect me!' as was oft demanded on here.

I think most people have their own problems that they are going to prioritise above the plight of the immunocompromised. It makes more sense for people who are immunocompromised to follow advice and take precautions relevant to their situations than assume the general population will keep them in mind when negotiating their own lives.

This. I work somewhere where we are supposed to come in 50% of the time. But the second someone gets as much as a sniffle they gleefully say “ooh I’m coming down with a cold - I’ll work from home to avoid spreading germs”. And then they work from home for a good couple of weeks “just to be sure”.

I remember colds spreading round the office like mad and that just doesn’t happen any more.