Is human nature mostly selfish?

[IcyUmberCrow]

observations for:

1. despite the general 'be kind' consensus of society, people are still unkind and inconsiderate, esp. to people who inconvenience them e.g. disabled people
2. crime etc. still persists
3. famous people tend to be very narcissistic, e.g. kim kardashian
4. children are selfish and you have to teach them not to be
5. wealth inequality

We all need to learn to be appropriately selfish. Most people fall into the category of givers or takers, so things tend to slot together that way. I was brought up (or am naturally inclined?) to be a giver, but have grown better (as the decades pass!) at placing myself more centrally.

One thing I love about cats is that they show the blissful arseholiness of pure natural selfishness. Human nature is no different, it's just suppressed to varying degrees.

hahaha I agree about cats. They do exactly whats right and fitting for them. Including "allowing" you to stroke and cuddle them. I think the way we were brought up has a lot to do with how we orient as an adult. If you miss out as a child and find yourself the black sheep (as opposed to being the golden princess) it marks your in later life. You are determined to prove things to yourself and it drives you to achieve. My parents had a very negative opinion of the value of education. They not only failed to encourage me but actually stood in my way when it came to A levels and so on. I left school at 15 with a few "O" levels. When I later made it to uni as a mature student I drove myself mercilessly to achieve a 1st, Masters and Ph.D. In the process I became somewhat ruthless.

I think most people are inherently selfish, ultimately our own survival (and that of our children/loved ones) will take priority over anyone else.

That said it varies to what degree and being selfish isn’t always a bad thing.

We are descended from mammals who are by nature selfish, as that was what was necessary to survive. But what makes us human is our caring for the welfare of our ‘tribe’; nurturing those in our group (family, neighbours, nation) who need help to survive. Some other animals do this too though, to varying degrees (elephants for one).

These two drivers are sometimes in conflict, and I think it’s nurture and life experience rather than nature that determines which side we prioritise. There’s probably an innate leaning though - not all toddlers are naturally selfish.

We are programmed for survival of the fittest. We are socialized out of it to some degree, but that is never perfectly achieved, hence the unpleasant things outlined by the OP.

Protecting the group is a double-edged sword - just look at the far right stuff we are currently being subjected to. That particular tribe is not an asset.

Also, cats aren’t completely selfish. One of mine brings me ‘generous’ gifts…

Yes.

Even so called selfless acts have a selfish element to them. Makes you feel good. Makes others view you positively. Means others are more likely to do something at some point that benefits you. From back when we were hominins it was a sensible strategy. you share your food with me today in the hope that I'll share mine with you tomorrow.

Nothing is truly selfless. There's always personal gain. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. It creates / strengthens social bonds which is good for the group.

Selfless still starts with self. 🤷‍♀️

so how do selfish individuals get away with it?

Because enough people are conflict avoidant doormats who prefer to take it, unlubed, up the arse, than stand up to bad behaviour.

Be the bigger person
Take the moral high ground
Don't cause a scene
Let it go

Absolutely not at all. We are social beings who evolved in cooperative groups. We’d never have invented farming if we were not social group animals. Children are not inherently selfish, they learn by observation and example pretty early on that sharing toys creates games and makes friends.

No not at all in my lived experience (I’m 65). I believe - based on my observed empirical evidence - that people are inherently kind, empathetic and selfless.

explain war, crimes, inequality etc.