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I don't think we are a rich country anymore

254 replies

ThisHairColourIsTooDarkIThink · 24/08/2025 15:30

I've been feeling for a while that the country is in a bit of a mess financially.

Are you feeling this and cutting back where you can (I know I am).

Telegraph headline today
Rachel Reeves ‘heading towards 70s-style IMF bailout’
Economists warn of 1970s-style debt crisis unless Chancellor changes course

I think this is why people are so up in arms about the inflow of all these young men from abroad seeking refuge.

Nobody minds helping others when we ourselves are sorted.

Lets be honest though - it's hard to get an NHS dentist or a doctors appt. Our police are falling apart (which is very scary given what they keep at bay in society), ambulances don't come fast when you have a genuine emergency, housing shortage, food prices rocketing etc.

How can we help all these people when we can't even sort out ourselves?

Anyway watched a few things recently and alot about our economy being in serious shit. It seems we are indeed in a position much like the seventies.

So I just wanted to know if others are feeling like we are on a bit of knife edge and are you all cutting back financially to 'brave the storm'

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Sibilantseamstress · 26/08/2025 15:10

Nonsense. She created a blip that fell back to trend. Rachel has actually raised the trend line.

ThisHairColourIsTooDarkIThink · 26/08/2025 15:25

Well interesting. I've been at my doctors surgery for a few years now but never had to make an appointment until now.

After another day standing in a shop with a bright red face and sweat running down me like I was contagious or something, I decided I was going to have to go on HRT after all.

Phone doctor - no can't make an appointment online and no you can't make an appointment today no matter how long you are prepared to wait. You have to call at 8am for a same day appointment or 10am for an advanced appointment but they normally only release a couple of them per day (for the same day next week). I asked if a nurse could perscribe HRT, no.

So presumably I spend the next X days calling at 8am with everyone else and not being able to get through. I then have to do this everyday until I get an appointment. How utterly inefficient.

So the receptionist has already answered a call from me today. How many more will she have to answer before I get an appointment. Great use of her time. It seems they have a shortage of GPs and never seem to know how many will be there each day so they never know how many appointments they can give out until the actual day.

I guess we all took for granted the fact we used to be able to call up and book an appointment there and then and usually it was for the next day or day after.

Where have all the doctors gone? Can the NHS not afford them now or have they all left the UK or is the population so high now that we don't have enough GP's for the constant increase in numbers.

I'm honestly starting to worry about the UK. Things we used to take for granted just aren't there anymore.

OP posts:
Sibilantseamstress · 26/08/2025 15:41

This is how GPs manage their stats on how long you have to wait for an appointment. Hey presto- everyone gets an appointment on the same day!

Trust no NHS stats.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Kitte321 · 26/08/2025 16:54

Pharazon · 26/08/2025 10:44

@Kitte321

"But I’m afraid I believe that where possible (clearly not in the case of moderate/severe disabilities) people should be compelled back to work."

And how are you going to compel employers to hire them? The reality is that a very large proportion of the long-term unemployed are simply unemployable - hence why they languish on UC and PIP. Workplaces have changed and unskilled manual jobs that can be done by even the lowest capability individuals are few and far between. Employers have no interest in hiring uneducated, unqualified, unskilled, unhealthy, unfit individuals.

The only solution is extremely longterm and expensive - we would need to re-model our society to ensure that children receive the best academic AND cultural education to allow them to escape toxic, low aspiration families and environments.

So we'll just carry on paying people to do nothing instead.

I think most people can do something. It might not be a desirable job but there are unskilled jobs out there.
I agree that that many people become less employable with time and large holes in their CV’s. If languishing on UC was no longer an option, school leavers would find some employment and/or further education to ensure that they were building some form of employment history and /or skills.

I also think that if the government reversed the crazy decision to increase employers NI you would see more entry level positions opening up.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on education. Some state schools are horrendous and we desperately need an injection of additional funds.

twistyizzy · 26/08/2025 18:43

Sibilantseamstress · 26/08/2025 15:10

Nonsense. She created a blip that fell back to trend. Rachel has actually raised the trend line.

Exactly

I don't think we are a rich country anymore
twistyizzy · 26/08/2025 18:44

Alexandra2001 · 26/08/2025 15:04

Truss caused this, in August 2022, 10yr gilt yields were 1.8%, a month latter, with her mini budget, 4.4% and they have been around this mark ever since.

Then we had Hunts NI cuts, that costs the Govt £10billion per year to fund... money we haven't got.

To put that in perspective, £10billion would fix NHS dentistry and go a large way towards solving social care crisis.

And here is Labour's impact on bonds/gilts

I don't think we are a rich country anymore
Someone2025 · 26/08/2025 18:50

ThisHairColourIsTooDarkIThink · 26/08/2025 15:25

Well interesting. I've been at my doctors surgery for a few years now but never had to make an appointment until now.

After another day standing in a shop with a bright red face and sweat running down me like I was contagious or something, I decided I was going to have to go on HRT after all.

Phone doctor - no can't make an appointment online and no you can't make an appointment today no matter how long you are prepared to wait. You have to call at 8am for a same day appointment or 10am for an advanced appointment but they normally only release a couple of them per day (for the same day next week). I asked if a nurse could perscribe HRT, no.

So presumably I spend the next X days calling at 8am with everyone else and not being able to get through. I then have to do this everyday until I get an appointment. How utterly inefficient.

So the receptionist has already answered a call from me today. How many more will she have to answer before I get an appointment. Great use of her time. It seems they have a shortage of GPs and never seem to know how many will be there each day so they never know how many appointments they can give out until the actual day.

I guess we all took for granted the fact we used to be able to call up and book an appointment there and then and usually it was for the next day or day after.

Where have all the doctors gone? Can the NHS not afford them now or have they all left the UK or is the population so high now that we don't have enough GP's for the constant increase in numbers.

I'm honestly starting to worry about the UK. Things we used to take for granted just aren't there anymore.

It’s been that way for years, in 2008 something similar happened to me never did actually get an appointment that time…..utterly useless

Squirrelintree · 26/08/2025 18:54

deadpan · 24/08/2025 16:42

We traditionally have more Tory governments than labour, the Tories don't do as much public spending as labour and slag them off because they say we need to pay more tax.
The truth of the matter is we do, look at Scandinavian countries. They pay way more tax than we do, they aren't perfect, no country is, but they consistently top the happiness charts.
What is like to know is where this the money go when Cameron etc all were in, they made the debt much higher and imposed an unnecessary Austerity project on the UK, apparently killing more than 150,000 people in the process.

This. The problem in this country is that people expect a lot of public services and a large welfare state but only want to pay low tax. Privatisation hasn't helped. We need to decide which we want. Scandinavian countries have big welfare states with well run public services but also high tax. Having recently visited two of them, I was amazed by the excellent public transport, high standards of everything and general cleanliness - people swim in the water at both Copenhagen and Stockholm, can you imagine swimming in the Thames? Stockholm is so elegant and both capitals so green with trees, parks and water everywhere. However, that is a choice those countries have made. It is quite likely that the UK would never choose that model but we may need to adjust expectations.

AgingLikeGazpacho · 26/08/2025 20:34

Kpo58 · 26/08/2025 14:51

So the money I could give to my children when I die only goes back to the state, then why should I work hard, buy a home, pay in to a pension or do anything to improve my lot as I could just live on benefits and have that all paid for me?

It won't affect the really wealthy as they will work out a way around it, by maybe putting all their assets owned by an off shore company or something.

Because presumably you'd prefer to live in a nice house, go on fun holidays, not worry about the grocery bill and have the ability to treat your kids without counting every penny? I'm not buying the idea that the only motivation for working hard to is to bequeath money?

I also don't understand the pessimistic outlook that the wealthy will try and squirrel away their money so let's not even bother trying to tax them - if there was enough public pressure then government could put in checks and measures to extract more money from the wealthy but the British voting public seem to prefer to scrabble around trying to get pennies out of a small percentage of benefits claimants who they deem as unworthy of state support

YelloDaisy · 26/08/2025 21:09

I think paying housing benefit was a mistake so that no matter how high your rent it will be covered by the gov if you cannot pay it. This surely allowed rents to go up and up and the value of houses to rise -renting was more and more lucrative. If we didn’t subsidise rents employers would have to pay decent wages. And the discrepancy with housing associations would be less - some in HA are so much better off.

YelloDaisy · 26/08/2025 21:12

millionaires pay tax on their interest -everyone talks as if everyone sits on loads of cash but the interest is taxed - must mount up if you have millions

ThatWaryOchreQuoter · 26/08/2025 21:29

AgingLikeGazpacho · 26/08/2025 20:34

Because presumably you'd prefer to live in a nice house, go on fun holidays, not worry about the grocery bill and have the ability to treat your kids without counting every penny? I'm not buying the idea that the only motivation for working hard to is to bequeath money?

I also don't understand the pessimistic outlook that the wealthy will try and squirrel away their money so let's not even bother trying to tax them - if there was enough public pressure then government could put in checks and measures to extract more money from the wealthy but the British voting public seem to prefer to scrabble around trying to get pennies out of a small percentage of benefits claimants who they deem as unworthy of state support

Most people’s motivation is to look after their kids, definitely going that extra bit to climb the ladder anyway or be bothered to start your own business. Taking away already heavily taxed money is immoral and self defeating if your purpose is to raise revenue or U.K. productivity.

This will be the last left wing Government the UK sees for a very very long time, the opinion polls and Gilt yields are beyond belief. You simply can’t govern by identity grievance politics.

TruckDiver · 26/08/2025 21:41

LOL at the idea that this government is "left wing".

ThatWaryOchreQuoter · 26/08/2025 21:47

TruckDiver · 26/08/2025 21:41

LOL at the idea that this government is "left wing".

What is it then?

SouthernNights59 · 26/08/2025 22:23

CorneliaCupp · 26/08/2025 10:07

Totally agree with this.
When my parents die I will benefit from a six figure inheritance which I did absolutely nothing to earn. It makes most sense for me to get this, while this country is in the state it is in.

Well aren't you the lucky one! Does it not occur to you that not everyone who gets an inheritance gets such a large one? Or that not everyone is in a good financial place and inherited money can make their life so much better? You are more than welcome to use your inheritance to help others, or to donate it to the government, but others who would really benefit from the money bequeathed to them shouldn't have to give it up simply because you don't need extra money.

Some of you live in such privileged little bubbles, it's astonishing.

Also, as other posters have pointed out, if there were to be no inheritances people would just fritter away all their money while they were alive.

ElizaMulvil · 26/08/2025 23:36

citygirl77 · 25/08/2025 14:46

Do you take into account our debt? If you do, we are very very very poor.

Our Government finances do not work like our own. We have a 'fiduciary' currency which means it is not based on eg the value of gold. It is a system based on trust. Our Government can create money eg It can print more.

If our Government needs money it issues bonds ( Gilts) which people here or in foreign countries can buy and get interest. They lend their money to us to be repaid with interest after anything upto 10, 20, 30 plus years. But, the higher the interest rate goes the lower the capital sum paid when sold. We are able to raise money in this way because the UK Government has never defaulted on its debts.

Because we are a trusted country many foreign entities are prepared to buy our gilts and help us fund our needs.

There is a huge problem if we don't support our poorest well. It is much better for our economy and long term benefit if we don't keep squeezing the pay of our poorest and keep cutting pensions, salaries, benefits to eg nurses, doctors, teachers, railway workers, factory workers etc., so those people can't afford the goods we produce leading to closures of factories, shops etc. a vicious circle.

If we raise pay ( as opposed to short term profiteering) then those people will spend it and boost sales, tax take and the economy, to pay for our NHS, Education etc. Cutting wages/benefits will actually do the opposite of what seems right now, at first glance, because poor people spend all their money and so boost our economy in contrast to the rich who often hoard their money or off shore it, benefitting no one here as they are neither spending it here nor paying tax to us.

Ironically companies that refuse to give their employees rises to maximise short term profits are actually often harming their future profitability as sales will fall more and more as incomes fall. (The system we have now inherited from 14years of austerity, cutting pay, benefits, support for the poorest in society.)

We are also suffering from a large fall in our birth rate which will again be disastrous for our future. So, it is in our interests to allow people from other countries in to work here and help stabilise our economy. We have jobs that need to be done eg in hospitality, the NHS, Care Homes etc etc. We need their labour and their taxes.

Asylum seekers eg are often people who have supported us in our hour of need eg in Afghanistan. People who share our values therefore even when risking their lives. If they are hard workers/ highly educated (and they often are as they have stood up to abusive Governments) we should be grateful they have chosen the UK. If subsequently their families follow that's a bonus.

ThatWaryOchreQuoter · 26/08/2025 23:47

ElizaMulvil · 26/08/2025 23:36

Our Government finances do not work like our own. We have a 'fiduciary' currency which means it is not based on eg the value of gold. It is a system based on trust. Our Government can create money eg It can print more.

If our Government needs money it issues bonds ( Gilts) which people here or in foreign countries can buy and get interest. They lend their money to us to be repaid with interest after anything upto 10, 20, 30 plus years. But, the higher the interest rate goes the lower the capital sum paid when sold. We are able to raise money in this way because the UK Government has never defaulted on its debts.

Because we are a trusted country many foreign entities are prepared to buy our gilts and help us fund our needs.

There is a huge problem if we don't support our poorest well. It is much better for our economy and long term benefit if we don't keep squeezing the pay of our poorest and keep cutting pensions, salaries, benefits to eg nurses, doctors, teachers, railway workers, factory workers etc., so those people can't afford the goods we produce leading to closures of factories, shops etc. a vicious circle.

If we raise pay ( as opposed to short term profiteering) then those people will spend it and boost sales, tax take and the economy, to pay for our NHS, Education etc. Cutting wages/benefits will actually do the opposite of what seems right now, at first glance, because poor people spend all their money and so boost our economy in contrast to the rich who often hoard their money or off shore it, benefitting no one here as they are neither spending it here nor paying tax to us.

Ironically companies that refuse to give their employees rises to maximise short term profits are actually often harming their future profitability as sales will fall more and more as incomes fall. (The system we have now inherited from 14years of austerity, cutting pay, benefits, support for the poorest in society.)

We are also suffering from a large fall in our birth rate which will again be disastrous for our future. So, it is in our interests to allow people from other countries in to work here and help stabilise our economy. We have jobs that need to be done eg in hospitality, the NHS, Care Homes etc etc. We need their labour and their taxes.

Asylum seekers eg are often people who have supported us in our hour of need eg in Afghanistan. People who share our values therefore even when risking their lives. If they are hard workers/ highly educated (and they often are as they have stood up to abusive Governments) we should be grateful they have chosen the UK. If subsequently their families follow that's a bonus.

There are so many fundamental misunderstandings in this, I don’t actually know where to start.

YelloDaisy · 27/08/2025 07:25

Asylum seekers could be members of the taliban who want a change of scene -no way can we know who people are from war torn countries. The Afghani guy posting on YouTube with the millions of views ,showing his luxurious bedroom and encouraging others to join him, to spend the bribe money speaks good English, may not be a member of the taliban, but is also not some penniless half starved, tortured wretch .

Kpo58 · 27/08/2025 07:38

Squirrelintree · 26/08/2025 18:54

This. The problem in this country is that people expect a lot of public services and a large welfare state but only want to pay low tax. Privatisation hasn't helped. We need to decide which we want. Scandinavian countries have big welfare states with well run public services but also high tax. Having recently visited two of them, I was amazed by the excellent public transport, high standards of everything and general cleanliness - people swim in the water at both Copenhagen and Stockholm, can you imagine swimming in the Thames? Stockholm is so elegant and both capitals so green with trees, parks and water everywhere. However, that is a choice those countries have made. It is quite likely that the UK would never choose that model but we may need to adjust expectations.

Many people would be happy to pay more tax if it gave them something back (is free childcare, free travel on public transport or an improved NHS), it just went don't trust the government regardless of party to not just line their own pockets whilst still trying to destroy what's left of the country's infrastructure.

Alexandra2001 · 27/08/2025 08:14

Sibilantseamstress · 26/08/2025 15:10

Nonsense. She created a blip that fell back to trend. Rachel has actually raised the trend line.

Nope, went from 1.8% to 4.4% & stayed there, yields in other countries did not treble.
Truss also crashed DC pensions, dropped them by 15 to 20%, BOE set up a 65billion fund, we are paying that back too.

How you get 10yr gilts going from around 4.5% to 4.7% as raising the trend but trebling rates is a blip... shows just how far those on the right will distort basic facts.

ThatWaryOchreQuoter · 27/08/2025 08:54

Alexandra2001 · 27/08/2025 08:14

Nope, went from 1.8% to 4.4% & stayed there, yields in other countries did not treble.
Truss also crashed DC pensions, dropped them by 15 to 20%, BOE set up a 65billion fund, we are paying that back too.

How you get 10yr gilts going from around 4.5% to 4.7% as raising the trend but trebling rates is a blip... shows just how far those on the right will distort basic facts.

Basic fact question, are they higher now? Yes or no.

twistyizzy · 27/08/2025 08:56

ThatWaryOchreQuoter · 27/08/2025 08:54

Basic fact question, are they higher now? Yes or no.

Of course they are

I don't think we are a rich country anymore
ThatWaryOchreQuoter · 27/08/2025 09:01

twistyizzy · 27/08/2025 08:56

Of course they are

shows just how far those on the right will distort present basic facts.

Alexandra2001 · 27/08/2025 09:18

A 0.3% increase in 10year gilts is a normal spread.....

Truss took them from 1.8 to 4.4% .... its a simple fact

Alexandra2001 · 27/08/2025 09:19

twistyizzy · 27/08/2025 08:56

Of course they are

Nope....

30 yr gilts still lower today than in October 2023.....