I don't think we are a rich country anymore

[ThisHairColourIsTooDarkIThink]

I've been feeling for a while that the country is in a bit of a mess financially.

Are you feeling this and cutting back where you can (I know I am).

Telegraph headline today
Rachel Reeves ‘heading towards 70s-style IMF bailout’
Economists warn of 1970s-style debt crisis unless Chancellor changes course

I think this is why people are so up in arms about the inflow of all these young men from abroad seeking refuge.

Nobody minds helping others when we ourselves are sorted.

Lets be honest though - it's hard to get an NHS dentist or a doctors appt. Our police are falling apart (which is very scary given what they keep at bay in society), ambulances don't come fast when you have a genuine emergency, housing shortage, food prices rocketing etc.

How can we help all these people when we can't even sort out ourselves?

Anyway watched a few things recently and alot about our economy being in serious shit. It seems we are indeed in a position much like the seventies.

So I just wanted to know if others are feeling like we are on a bit of knife edge and are you all cutting back financially to 'brave the storm'

Simple fact question, are they higher now? Yes or no.

https://www.axa-im.co.uk/investment-institute/market-views/market-updates/gilt-yields-spike-uk-governments-precarious-finances
UK gilts are running higher than they were when former prime minister Liz Truss was forced out of 10 Downing Street after her Mini Budget sent levels rocketing, which comes just a week on from the widespread selloff triggered by fears of Chancellor Rachel Reeves’ potential dismissal, and her mammoth task to restore the UK government’s debts.
https://www.investmentweek.co.uk/news-analysis/4516105/uk-gilts-truss-ousting-levels-reeves-speculative-market-marred-decisions-former-government

I don't think you get the scale of the problem. Employer NI is neither here nor there. Entry level positions are disappearing because they are simply not needed any more - why employ five office juniors when one new grad can use AI to do all their jobs? Why employ five warehouse assistants when automation can do the job of ten, 24 hours a day?

And it's really not just about state schools - it's about society and class - which means that public schools and universities, our great institutions of state, and the entire rotten class-bound hierarchy that results in political stagnation ,social polarisation, and economic decline would have to be rebuilt.

It won't happen of course, so everyone who is doing just fine with the status quo (myself included) can rest easy.

Two months ago....

Truss was years ago yet you keep bringing her up. You can't use what Truss did whilst denying what Labour have done, that's extreme cognitive dissonance

30 year gilts are lower than in October 2023 and 10year gilts 0.1% higher than in October 2023.... under your team

vs Truss taking them from 1.8% to 4.4%.......

Why are you happy with UK borrowing costs trebling under the Tories but now so "worried" about relatively small increases in future borrowing costs?

btw i don't believe you give a shit about the subject, its just another chance to attack Labour, hence your dismissal of Truss...

Reeves needs to grasp the nettle and tax investment income like any other wage. Land and property left idle and empty should be taxed. The useless thieving privatised utilities should be abolished. Social media companies and other multinationals are taking the piss.

Having said that the UK is a good place to live compared to , say the US. According to stats the US is very rich . But stats are often misleading. Anyone who has travelled in the States will have seen eye watering levels of poverty , poor infrastructure etc.

I've taken a real interest in what's going on with the economy at the moment.

I watched several podcasts last night and things do indeed seem very bleak.

My understanding is that because we have our own currency the country can't actually go bankrupt as such but we can get really high inflation where the price of goods and services can just rocket so the value of any cash you have will go down substantially (hyperinflation)

It seems we are close to entering what politicians call 'the doom loop' and everyone is waiting to see what this budget brings.

Meanwhile 40 minutes on the phone to the doctors this morning from 8am and when I got through, no appointments left. Call again tomorrow. Big signs at surgery saying don't abuse the receptionists. Big messages on the queue on telephone saying don't abuse the receptionists. Now I understand why so many people are going to A&E for things that don't require A&E. I mean if you can't get a doctors appointment then where do you go.

I think for the first time in my life I am seriously thinking of voting for reform. Is that madness?

Given that Nigel Farage said the Liz Truss budget was brilliant and called it ' the first Conservative Budget since 1987' yes I'd say voting Reform would be a bit silly. The classic definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

I think the tax accountant Richard Murphy has the right ideas on his YouTube podcast.

My health centre has an app to get appointments, on line GP, they assess if you need to be seen or not.

Even booked cancer screening via NHS app.

Saves waiting on 'phone

I think for the first time in my life I am seriously thinking of voting for reform. Is that madness?

No, just stupidity.

You decry the state of a key public service, brought about by chronic underfunding, and then think the answer might be to vote for a party that wants to massively reduce taxation on the wealthy, reducing the money the government has to spend and inevitably making such problems worse.

Very happy for you. You realise GP and health services are a post code lottery?

Also waiting lists are down due to hospitals being paid to reduce them ie kicking patients off the lists? Plus every time a GP decides not to refer a patient to hospital, they will be paid £20 for doing so.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/apr/10/hospitals-in-england-to-get-unlimited-incentive-payments-for-patients-taken-off-waiting-lists

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2025/04/nhs-will-be-paid-cut-waiting-lists-at-great-cost-to-patient-safety
Imagine the furore if a Conservative government announced a scheme to shrink hospital waiting lists using financial incentives. First, they’d pay cash-strapped hospitals unlimited bonuses to kick patients off the lists. Then, they’d offer GPs cash to stop referring patients to hospital.

So… yes. We got there in the end.

oh yes 0.1% vs 300% lol

You people really are funny.

Simple fact question, are they higher now? Yes or no.

Re your last sentence. What Reform economic policies do you think will be helpful? I’m aware of the ‘deport 600,000 people’ one but I’m not convinced that this would make much on the investment (setting side other issues as this is a thread about economics). Any others that appeal to you?

You're right. I just don't know who to vote for to help this mess.

Watching an economist this morning who said if the IMF get involved they will set the rules anyway which will probably mean us rejoining the EU as a condition of getting the help then they will cut all the expenditure including benefits.

Feels like a car crash in slow motion.......

Meanwhile I still can't get a doctors appointment. There is no app, I have tried going to the surgery, I have tried emailing, i have tried phoning. They tell you to phone at 10am to get any appointments for next week they have released. Today they released ONE appointment for Wednesday next week. So back to phoning tomorrow at 8am but can never get through till the appointments are gone so........

So yes reform are probably not the answer but hey 600,000 less can only increase my chance of a doctors appointment so..........

I'm actually not sure if I am joking or not!

I would have to learn what their other policies are before I seriously voted for them but if not them then who?

I mean seriously who should I vote for if I can't get a doctors appointment.

Anyway per my last thread the IMF will set the rules if we need a bailout and NHS funding will be slashed so I don't think any of us will be getting doctors appointments soon. God help those relying on benefits to live cos they will be getting slashed too.

I think I've seen some of Richard Murphy before but thanks for the tip. I shall have a look at his channel to get another opinion.

I just can't believe that I can't get a doctors appointment no matter what I do.
It's not a situation I ever thought I'd find myself in living in the UK but here we are.

Maybe we do need the IMF to 'take over'. Their choices will be brutal. Anyone relying on benefits will probably be in deep shit cos they will all be slashed (although they clearly need to be). However if none of our goverments can fix the mess then as embarassing as it is the IMF might actually be what we need.

At least that ought to stop 'the boat people' or will they keep coming when we are bankrupt? I don't actually know.

Well it won't when a good proportion of the 600,000 they "accidentally" deport happen to work in the health care industry.

I do understand your point but these 600,000 people also use the health services, take up houses that we are short on and use schools etc for their children.

So if they leave we may indeed lose some staff in the NHS but users will go down, houses will be freed up, education costs will go down etc

Okay I know it's not as simple as that but you get my point.

Everyone is angry and frustrated just now because basic services are being taken away from us and meanwhile more people are still coming to the country.

Anyway I am not going to worry about it anymore. The IMF can sort if all out. Very unsettling times.

I lived through the seventies and people were just alot poorer, houses were cold, food was terrible, there were power cuts regularly. People just accepted this lower standard of living (well we didn't know any better really). We had an IMF bailout then too(in the seventies). Mind you all jokes aside i think you could get a doctors appointment quite easily (need to check that but I don't remember hearing my mum say she couldn't get an appointment and she was there pretty regularly)

Stop quoting the 600,000 number, I did say that think Farage may have got his sums wrong, I certainly haven’t been able to see his workings anyway. My question was were there any other economic policies from Reform that you liked and you said no. But your hanging on to the immigration issue over the many many others than you and contributors here have raised. Huh. What gives?

I think you have brought this thread to where you wanted it to be, give yourself a pat on the back.

I’m off now to look up some recipes, may be back to tell you how I get on.

I think you have brought this thread to where you wanted it to be, give yourself a pat on the back. Yip, we see through you OP 🙄

Ultimately, we're not a "rich" country anymore compared with emerging economies (over the past few decades) like Dubai and China etc who are growing massively.

Their wealth has to come from somewhere and places like the UK are suffering as a result.

At the end of the day, "wealth" is a relative thing, so when someone (or a country) gets wealthier, it's at the expense of someone else (or a country).

The rich Western economies are coming to the end of their successful rich lives, just as other empires have ebbed and flowed over time, such as Russia, Romans, Egyptians, etc.

We have to adapt to the new future that our country's wealth is declining and average living standards will continue to fall. We also have to accept that more people will have to work and fewer people will be able to live on benefits.

Once our average living standards have fallen, then maybe we can start being competitive on the international stage again in decades to come as it may swing back to where the UK becomes a relatively cheap place to get workers compared with the emerging economies like China that are already seeing labour costs increase as workers there want a better standard of living now they're living in a prosperous country.

+1

Would love to know exactly how you think Reform are going to 'fix the economy'!