Lucy Letby: Have you changed your mind?

[Kittybythelighthouse]

The other thread has had a lot of really interesting discussion but we are running out of pages so here’s a new one for those who are interested in continuing the conversation.

Whether you’re sure she’s guilty, sure she isn’t, or are somewhere in between, I’m interested in hearing how your opinion has evolved (or hasn’t!) since you first heard about the case,

Please try to be respectful - this is a heated topic. Its a matter of huge public interest with a lot of strong opinions, but we are all adults and can disagree with each other in a respectful manner.

Old thread is here (the poll still has a few days left):
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5388914-lucy-letby-have-you-changed-your-mind?page=38&reply=146359313

Having an affair with a married man doesn't make you a murderer, or a monster.

Not that there's any evidence whatsoever that Lucy Letby did that.

Who said that it did?

and no I don’t believe she had an affair, an infatuation and a fantasy, perhaps.

I agree, some will always believe she is guilty.

But that won't be the end of it if she is released, because the deaths and collapses are going to then have to be looked at from the other angle of hospital failures.

People criticise people who doubt the conviction saying that we're not thinking about the families, but even with the trial there are families who never got any answers (whether they were safe or not) because for their babies there was no verdict.

I feel like if she ever does get released there is going to be an absolute shitstorm that follows like how could this happen in the first place, and then get to the point where they had the Thirlwall inquiry about how they could allow a serial killer to continue harming babies and then senior staff arrested on the basis of gross negligence manslaughter for allowing a serial killer to keep harming babies, all while the hospital and management should have been investigated from another angle instead.

But it was neither a fantasy or an infatuation.

Of course Dewi Evans just said that that diagnosis was wrong.

How so? There are no witnesses to their ‘affair’ not anything to prove that they had one, just a lot of messages between them and it was obvious she thought him an ally and someone she could rely on. And the text from a friend where LL was being teased about a crush that she very defensively shut down.

I have worked in neonatal units and have never thought she was guilty . There is no evidence to say any of the babies were murdered. It was inadequate medical care and the fact they were so vulnerable.
It has been a pure witch hunt - and shows people today are no more educated than in medieval times . Happy to jump on the guilty band wagon with no understanding. She never had a fair trial .

At a pre-trial hearing in order to get anonymity the doc said he was the subject of unrequited affection from Letby, also that she had targeted his wife on social media.

I don't believe that for a second and think that he perjured himself, the text messages show whatever was between them was mutual, they did try to plant the seed that she did these things to try to get his attention so if this was really unrequited and she had even targeted his wife on social media then surely that would have been brought up in trial.

With the insulin tests I believe they can be misleading with preterm infants and in the case of sepis. I think insulin tests are badly used in the courts and have almost certainly caused other miscarriages of justices.

However there is another problem, even if the above didn't apply, which is that they went back looking through all the medical tests for all the babies for the period that Lucy was working looking for anything unusual. Say for example tests are wrong about 2% of the time. As a jury you might think well that seems a low chance of the test being wrong and therefore it is beyond reasonable doubt that something bad has happened.

However if the investigators have looked back through loads of tests and just highlighted the ones with abnormal results the probabilities look very different. For example, in the case above, if you looked through one hundred tests for signs of abnormalities on average you would find two incorrect tests.

Oh okay obviously because YOU had a decent experience there can't possibly be any other poor staff or abuse, neglect etc.
That's the kind of deluded thinking that led to this atrocity. I wonder if the babies parents share your view.

From the same hospital in the NHS, excellent maternity care, plus excellent follow-up for low grade malignant tumor and loss of pregnancy.

Eta. I do understand awful practices within the the NHS, experience from when I moved to the North West.

Also @Serencwtch it was male consultants who were the worst in the North West. Patronising and patriarchal, apart from the brilliant female connsultants.

he may have disagreed with some of the theories, but he agreed entirely that there was no evidence of murder.

I don’t know whether she is innocent or guilty but I feel that her conviction is unsafe. Even more so after the programme.

I’ve always thought this too.

Have you ever heard of an obsessed bunny boiler who turns down offers of cosy lifts home with her object of infatuation? More than once too. It’s clear from the texts who was chasing who. The teasing text - she just shuts it down. What about that text did you find made her look like a besotted girl experiencing unrequited love? If anything she was way less interested at that point (based on the texts).

He requited it all right.

I wish people wouldn't keep using emotive language re: "what would the parents say. Think about them " you really think it's better to falsely believe your baby was murdered than dig further for (the truth imho) that they died of negligence at the hands of a failing NHS baby unit. Both are horrible, but the former far far far worse. They deserve the truth.

I agree. She was no bunny boiler.

I also think that maternity care for that hospital in that period needs looking at. We’ve seen from various ockenden investigations and morcombe bay that individual hospitals can have issues causing higher stillbirth rates.

Stands to reason any such issue would also affect numbers of babies being admitted into the nicu and potentially how sick they were.

A Nicu doesn’t operate in isolation

@Squishymallows cool name by the way 😉

Actually the only ones that were not robbed was Dewi Evan’s who made over £700k & Dr J making money on talk shows both Lucy her family & friends the parents & their wider family have all lost. nothing will ever pay them back for the trauma they have been through. This isn’t just about Lucy this is systemic abuse, this could be any nurse, midwife, neonatal/children’s nurse. It would be interesting to see how much the nhs is paying out on lost tribunals for bullying & harassment. Think the public would be shocked.

Actually, the only ones that were not robbed was Dewi Evan’s who made over £700k & Dr J, making money on talk shows both Lucy, her family & friends, the parents & their wider family have all lost.

I wonder what motive Dewi Evans would have for falsifying/deliberately misrepresenting evidence?

Exactly,
Justice has not been done if this has been a miscarriage of justice, instead a further injustice has been done to these families.
There were also families where there was no verdict in the trial, they haven't got any answers or 'closure' at all even if the verdict was unsafe. I would imagine that they still want every angle of this looked at until they have some.

It doesn't matter if he thinks she's guilty or not, the facts about the medical evidence are what matters.

Arrogance. He thinks he's right, so it doesn't matter.