Over 70s to face driving ban...

[FridgeJenga]

if they fail mandatory eye tests.

What's your opinion?
Is 70 too "young", or about right?
Would 75 be a better compromise?
Currently there is no legal age at which you must surrender your driving licence.
Both my father and FIL voluntarily gave up their licences just before they turned 80. My mum at 76, and MIL is still driving at 78, though only very locally.

(Also in the same article, drink driving limits are under discussion to be lowered, in line with Scotland's laws. This one I fully agree with)

Hardly. My mother kerbed her brand new car (exactly the same make and model as her last one), ruining the tyre and damaging the CV joint, because she thought her vision was still good enough. We confiscated her keys until she had her cataracts done.

Like a bat- don’t think go get a free test over 60. Have to be on means tested benefits or certain conditions for yourself or near family. It is like dentist my mother is 92 and pays for nhs dentist. I am 68 and have to pay private.
Does not alter need for eye tests for driving though.

Not sure I agree with nil alcohol. It is those over the limit who cause the deaths. Would be interested in figures about crashes caused by those who had a drink but kept under limit. Will total ban save lives? Laws should be evidence based not on gut reactions.
Many people have respected the law, kept under the limit and caused no problems.

May I add the middle aged, too? I see an increasing number with no apparent knowledge of their indicators, roundabout requirements or the fact that you really ought to look both ways before pulling out of a side road onto a main carriageway rather than just turning out and assuming oncoming traffic traffic or more worrying pedestrians will stop for you.

I would encourage all police forces to do more stop and checks on drivers.
They remove dodgy cars and issues notices to people who need to bring things up to scratch.
This probably could be done 24/7 and would empty some people off the road.

PHTM - Private Hire & Taxi Monthly

MESSAGE TO MEMBERS OF OUR TRADE FROM BRISTOL TAXICOP PATRICK QUINTON
On Thursday, I was at Bristol Airport working with 13 Police, DVSA and Licensing Colleagues from South Gloucestershire, North Somerset, Newport and Merthyr Tydfil (I did invite other councils too !)
We checked 177 taxis and private hire vehicles from 25 Councils across England and Wales in the new Drop and Go area.
75% of them were fully compliant with all licensing conditions and road traffic law with most of the other 25% being fairly minor issues resulting in Non Compliance Notices.
6 had to be taken off the road for tyre issues
and 6 did not have their badges with them. No badges is bad, because we can't let the drivers leave until we know they are licensed which can take a while to check
Pleased to say that no unlicensed drivers or vehicles were found this tim

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-39325833

This happened at the bottom of my road. The arrogant killer didn't even see them and didn't stop. Horrific and 100% drivers should be banned.

Completely ridiculous to stop people driving just because they can't see. When will this madness end?!

Yes, this. If we're going on a 'you must let us know' basis, we could go further and also close down all the courts and just make it mandatory for everybody who has committed a crime to hand themselves in!

Eyesight is indeed like Mrs Twit's walking stick - only over a far longer period.

I have a family member - thankfully she rarely drives now out of choice and other circumstances - but she hasn't had her eyes tested for over 30 years. She assures me that "my eyesight is still fine", so that must be alright, then! No need for professional qualified opticians doing eye tests anymore - we instinctively know already ourselves!

I agree - and judging by the younger drivers I see around here, I could perhaps "hope" that it is just their poor eyesight that causes them to drive as they do, and not a complete lack of judgement. Last week I was on the local A road (notorious for accident) going to a restaurant. The speed limit where I was was 40, and I could see "it" coming. I was going to turn right into the restaurant car park and the speed at which the two cars behind me were approaching suggested that they hadn't seen any of the 40mph signs. I started to indicate earlier than I normally would to warn them I was turning right and not to overtake me whilst I was doing so. Apparently they also couldn't see my indicators, they couldn't see the signs advising of the blind junction, and they also couldn't see the bend that obscured any possible vision of oncoming traffic. Had there been a car coming the other direction as both flew past, there would have been a terrific pile up and probably the only person who might have walked away from it would have been me, because I was preparing for it.

Whilst I do agree that more needs to be done to ensure all people are fit to drive (as many other countries do) I also think we need to get way tougher on bad driving. Too many people think it's a joke and that enforcement is just a way of collecting extra taxes. It isn't - it's a way of saving lives and it isn't working. People are injured and killed on that road I just mentioned every single week, and it's rare that there isn't a car in a ditch somewhere along it.

Personally, I think that at 70, 75, 80, and then annually after this, all drivers should have;

1. Eye test (optician)
2. Cognitive assessment (GP/ practice nurse. I accept this will probably be private)
3. Reaction times assessment (again private and could be done online like at DVLA test centres).

this

The human body changes a lot with age. Accepting this and screening out unsuitable drivers is common sense not ageism. I hope I live to a ripe old age and have to deal with all of this. It's better than the alternative

Fair enough. But while we are making driving safer let’s clamp down on other issues too.

In some parts of the US new drivers are only allowed to drive with family members in the car, not friends.

In France new drivers are limited to 50 km an hour.

In some countries new drivers have to display a “ new driver” indication.

In the UK it is illegal to use a phone to text/ make calls while driving ( unless hands free) yet this still happens because the penalties are never applied meaningfully.

Ditto seat belts.

Ditto repeat speeders..

In many countries the limit for alcohol while driving is zero.

I actually think the eyesight test is a good idea, but think there are any other ways to make roads safer for all users and would like to see those under discussion too. It’s not about limiting personal freedoms, it’s about realising that the cars many inadequate drivers drive are killing machines for other drivers and pedestrians.

Same for my parents and all their elderly neighbours. It’s a real worry, there are so few options other than private transport out here and they are completely car reliant.

I think the summer/winter tyre switch that is mandatory in most of northern europe would make a bigger difference than eyesight tests.

You only have to drive once on winter tyres to understand the performance improvement they give over summer tyres in cold conditions.

Either that or make all weather tyres mandatory.

I personally think we should have a better system for everyone not just the over 70s but across the driving range entirely. How can we self certify were fit to drive, everyone can miss things that would loose there licence. But young people should have to drive for a year with no passengers except a parent, we need safer roads for everyone not just removing people who rely on their cars. I know 18 year olds who have crashed, hurt their passengers and walked away and I know a 94 year old whose daughter fills in the form, for her to keep her license. She can't see pedestrians. I refused for my nan to go in the car with her after 3 near misses on a 10 minute journey to Tesco. And as for the alcohol limit it should be zero no tolerance. There should be no second guessing if the second glass of wine puts you over the limit or if that third pint is a bit too much. We shouldn't be encouraging the younger generation to take a guess on how much is too much the answer should be one is too much.

Bring it on. Totally sensible suggestion. I do think that there needs to be something additional for those with cognitive decline. So many stories with people who lack awareness of their decline. And with tragic consequences.

Could there be a simple test for that (also for over 70s)?

I can see the argument for not driving friends. And I agree with you about alcohol.

But are you sure about new drivers being limited to 50km an hour? That’s only 30mph.

And the school run parents who scrape the side of your car when trying to squeeze past from a side road because they are not thinking past Gotta get kid to school gotta get to work, or head straight for you from the opposite direction after overtaking.

I think it’s good. Apparently we’re the only European country not to have some sort of check for the elderly.

I think 70 is fair with current retirement age and how the body ages over time. I think professionals should also have a duty to report certain conditions to DVSA so licences can be revoked instead of leaving it up to people who may not agree. But due to patient confidentiality I don’t think this is the current situation. Self reporting is only as good as someone’s community spirit. As we know some people would risk others to prevent their own inconvenience.

As long as they pass the eye sight test and have no other health issues that means they must stop driving they won't be affected by the proposals. If they can't see they shouldn't be driving regardless of how inconvenient it is.

I very much doubt that if they set a max age for driving that it would be 50 or 60! It’s far, far more likely to be between 70 and 90 to give a very broad range. Even if older people can see properly and are in good health, their ability to physically drive and their reaction times and spatial awareness declines due to age.

I’d set the max age somewhere from 78 to 85. For example, once a person got to 70, they could renew their licence for 3 years like they do now but with additional eye, etc, checks. Then at 80 (or similar) it would expire for good.

Would 75 be a better compromise?

This 'compromise' you refer to in your opening post would be the inconvenience to the over 70s who need to have a sight test vs number of accidents where failing eyesight is a contributing factor.

So let's not inconvenience everyone over 70 with the hope of preventing the majority of accidents where failing eyesight is a contributing factor, but instead just prevent those caused caused by the over 75s?

There shouldn't be any 'compromise' when we are talking about preventing serious and fatal accidnts. If anything there shoud be compulsary eye tests every 3 years for all drivers.

It's in line with quite a few European countries. You need to pass a medical examination including eye test from age 70/75/80 every 2-5 years in e.g. in Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Norway (a quick search tells me it's 14 countries in total). Norway is the outlier at 80 (though arguably their roads are quieter and everything is more remote).

Perhaps people should only be entitled to a bus pass if they give up their car!

I'd love it if there were more enforcement and bigger penalties. I see appalling driving every day from all ages. In the past week I've seen a man pulling into a main road without looking (had to slam on my breaks), a woman texting while driving through a yellow light and turning right, a man driving through a red light that had been red for at least 30 seconds, endless cutting off and pulling out in front of cyclists.

Quite a lot of the comments on this thread are dealt with in the new government proposals, if you read the full article.

Certainly, watching the Cause of Death programme referred to, I thought there was almost certainly cognitive decline in at least one of the drivers who killed people.

What really amazed me was that in all the drivers’ cases, it was years since they’d been unequivocally told to stop driving due to appalling eyesight before they actually killed anyone. Shows how careful pedestrians are in this car-obsessed country.

The guy in the article who claimed he couldn’t get an eye test can stop driving right now if he thinks his sight is not good enough. Not an excuse.

Why didn't you report her sooner?